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Thread: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

  1. #31
    Andrej Gregov
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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    See below for my ordeal. I emailed Formulary back in the Spring wanting to give feedback and help them solve whatever issue is going on. Not heard a peep from them. Maybe an email from the forum might get their attention. I believe they figure it's operator error, as Sandy states. But in my case, I did nothing different except change from Formulary to Bostick Pyrocat HD and development times snapped right into place for me. Sandy, have you used any stock Pyrocat from Formulary in liquid form? It might take someone of Sandy's reputation to get their attention.

    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...85#post1502485

  2. #32
    Cor's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    My 2 cents: I always mixed my own Pyrocat-HDC (in Glycol) from the same chemistry stocks per instructions from Sandy King. A couple of years ago I suddenly started to get problems with solution "A"..a white precipitate on top (a contradiction), whch I could not get into solution again.

    So I switched to Pyrocat-HDC, no more problems.

    The funny thing is that I kept this bottle of HD and use it when I re-devlop in Pyro after bleaching a negative..it still works after a littleswirling to get a 'suspension"..

    best,

    Cor

  3. #33
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    Nearly all of the issues associated with Pyrocat seem rooted in working procedures or operator error.

    Any developer that contains carbonate can develop sufficient gas to cause pinholes in film emulsion, especially if development is followed by an acetic acid stop bath. A working solution of Pyrocat has pH of about 11, when you change the film from this environment to an acetic acid stop bath with pH 4 or below, the shock to the emulsion is great. A better choice would be a water stop bath rather than an acetic acid stop bath.

    Pinholes used to be common with films and carbonate type developers but over the years emulsions have become much tougher and pinholes are very rare except with some old style traditional emulsions. But going from a very alkaline developing solution to a very acetic acid stop is capable of blowing holes in any emulsion.

    A water rinse gives about 100% protection from pinholes.

    Sandy
    The biggest offender for film was HP5. Next round I will try water stop bath and see how that does. The problem was worse for semi-stand over a 1 hour period. However, this last time I tried with Tmax100 as semi-stand worked out fine from what I can tell.

  4. #34

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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    Quote Originally Posted by agregov View Post
    Sandy, have you used any stock Pyrocat from Formulary in liquid form?

    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...85#post1502485

    I have used the stock liquid form in glycol, and never had any trouble with it. Some of the chemicals in the -HD formula, especially metabisulfite and bromide, need a lot of heat to go into solution in glycol, but they are not really necessary in the glycol formula anyway so even if not in solution in the stock solution the working solution should work fine.

    However, I have been mixing and using only the -HDC formula for at least 6-8 years. -HDC substitutes ascorbic acid for the metabisulfite and bromide with same results, and all of the chemicals go into solution in glycol easily at 150º F.

    Sandy
    http://www.sandykingphotography.com/
    For discussion and information about carbon transfer please visit the carbon group at groups.io
    [url]https://groups.io/g/carbon

  5. #35

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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    I'm reviving this old thread because I believe I just encountered a similar problem (milkiness & white precipitate, NOT pinholes or other issues). I received my new "Pyrocat-HD in Glycol" liquid 2-bottle set from PF two days ago. Because of this thread I had kept some unimportant negatives to test the new batch. Immediately upon mixing up the working solution (usual 10:10:1000) it turned milky and white, with what looked like white particles in suspension. I tray developed the test batch of 3 negs and they look flat and dull. Borders are clear, so it isn't fogging. I will contact PF on Monday, but wondered if anyone else had encountered problems during the 5 months since this thread went dormant, or has any suggestions. (Based on Sandy's post just above, I guess it could be chemicals not in solution in the glycol, but would that account for the milky/suspension appearance of the working solution?)

  6. #36

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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    Problems such as those mentioned here do not go away until changes are made by the supplier. My suggestion is to follow Sandy's example, it works well for him.

  7. #37

    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    I received an order for a couple of Pyrocat HD Liquid kits in early September 2019. Last used the chemicals a couple of days ago with no problems.
    Website: photoscapes.com
    Photo Blog: darrlene.com

  8. #38

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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    My first batch of Pyrocat M is now 7 months old and still going strong. Stored in half filled brown bottle indoors 68-72*. It has similar staining properties as Pyrocat HD and similar use that requires very minor tweaks to dilution depending on your agitation and time preferences. It also makes a nice 2nd pass developer after bleaching if you want a warm tone that is not as brownish as sepia toners.

    Stock A 1 liter
    Distilled Water at 120F 750 ml
    Metol 2.5g
    Sodium Metabisulfite 10g
    Pyrocatechin 50g
    Water to make 1000ml

    PART B - same as one used for HD
    Distilled Water . 700 ml
    Potassium Carbonate . 750 g
    Distilled water to make. 1000 ml
    Adventure is worthwhile in itself. ... Never interrupt someone doing what you said couldn't be done. -- Amelia Earhart
    http://www.searing.photography

  9. #39

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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    Jim, Esearing: I was hoping to avoid having to mix my own developer, I like Pyrocat-HD and my two prior batches from PF were trouble free. If I go to "mix my own," it would be Pyrocat-HDC; the biggest issue (since I'm a bit lazy) is that I would have to go to three sources for the raw chemicals, PF for the photo chemicals, auto supply for the glycol, and a pharmacy for the ascorbic acid. But if I can't sort out the issues for the pre-mix with PF, that is the way I will have to go.

  10. #40

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    Re: Problem with Pyrocat HD from PF

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Lewin View Post
    I'm reviving this old thread because I believe I just encountered a similar problem (milkiness & white precipitate, NOT pinholes or other issues). I received my new "Pyrocat-HD in Glycol" liquid 2-bottle set from PF two days ago. Because of this thread I had kept some unimportant negatives to test the new batch. Immediately upon mixing up the working solution (usual 10:10:1000) it turned milky and white, with what looked like white particles in suspension. I tray developed the test batch of 3 negs and they look flat and dull. Borders are clear, so it isn't fogging. I will contact PF on Monday, but wondered if anyone else had encountered problems during the 5 months since this thread went dormant, or has any suggestions. (Based on Sandy's post just above, I guess it could be chemicals not in solution in the glycol, but would that account for the milky/suspension appearance of the working solution?)
    I alerted PF to this thread when it was started in August. I received an email from Mikkie at PF in mid-November acknowledging the concerns.

    Perhaps you will learn more when you contact them.

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