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Thread: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

  1. #11

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    I have an IQsmart 2 it deivers 4300 ppi and is as slow as molasses in winter - ie it takes forever. But the result is outstanding. I believe the IQsmart 3 delivers about 5500 ppi.

    If I run at 2400 ppi times aren't too bad but it certainly isn't even close to being fast. If you have thousands of large plates you'll be scanning for a few years. The good news is that if they're 8 x 10 plates you can mount two plates and scan overnight so I guess you might get 4 to 6 plates scanned a day if you run 24 hours a day. The machines were built to scan all day every day so if it's in good condition I don't think you'd wear it out. Epson - Ha! Buy a few of them. it isn't what they were built for.

    I think some form of scanning with a good digital camera will be the only way to do the job in a practical timeframe.

  2. #12

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeyT View Post
    >> I scanned 2000 dpi with all the scanners and the result from Nikon was superior to that of the epson scanners.

    Oh No! You can not say it here
    SergeyT (Серёжа), look my test. The same frame scanned at 2400 dpi on a brand new Epson 12000 xl and Nikon CoolScan 9000. The original scanned from 6x9 glass photo plate. Scanned with VueScan and saved in DNG format. The Epson 12000 has 4 mirrors through which the image passes, Nikon CoolScans has only one. Heidelberg said - each mirror between film and lens/sensor reduced the quality of the scanned image. Only Heidelberg have an A3 flatbed scanner without a mirror.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #13

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukmop View Post
    SergeyT (Серёжа), look my test. The same frame scanned at 2400 dpi on a brand new Epson 12000 xl and Nikon CoolScan 9000. The original scanned from 6x9 glass photo plate. Scanned with VueScan and saved in DNG format. The Epson 12000 has 4 mirrors through which the image passes, Nikon CoolScans has only one. Heidelberg said - each mirror between film and lens/sensor reduced the quality of the scanned image. Only Heidelberg have an A3 flatbed scanner without a mirror.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Probably you have some problem in the side by side, the Epson 12k delivers 2150dpi effective, and 3900 the Nikon 9000. Not doubt that the Nikon CoolScan 9000 has a way better resolution, but at 2400dpi nominal differences in the samples should not be that large by far.

    For the moment the white triangles in the Epson 12k sample are fully saturated, which points to poor procedures in selecting the scanned range in the histogram.

  4. #14

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Scan at 1800 dpi or 2000 dpi has a significant result.

  5. #15

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Quote Originally Posted by Bukmop View Post
    Scan at 1800 dpi or 2000 dpi has a significant result.
    Scan at highest resolution in both cases, sharpen to the best point each and reduce both to 2400, then compare, this is what tells the truth.

    A machine may scan internally at higher dpi and then sharpening and reducing, for a fair comparison to show the machine potential you should do the right test.

    No doubt that N 9000 is way better than E 12000, one is for 6cm and the other is for A3, but if wanting to compare do a fair comparison.

  6. #16

    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    I want to revive this thread because I'm considering an IQSmart3. I currently have a LF scanning service that provides 50 or 100mp files to clients from 4x5, 5x7, or 8x10. I chose these resolutions because I think they're consumer friendly rather than saying xyz PPI or even worse "300mb"... Of course I do specialty jobs at higher res on request but I get lots of photographers who send me 10-30 sheets of 4x5 and just want affordable 50mp scans. Maybe they're working on a project long term or just having fun, in any case I'm a big proponent of the idea that not everything needs to be scanned at 4000ppi with a Tango 'just because'.

    I've been using my Panasonic S1R set up in pixel shift mode, and I downsample the files to their chosen resolution. This cleans up the file quite a bit. I use Negative Supply tools, such as their holders and their 99CRI 8x10 LED. People are pretty happy with the quality!

    However, on my end there are some surprising issues with this workflow. First, it's totally 'hands on'. I have to sit there and set up each scan. This means dusting the platform and negative extensively and then doing the capture. I can get 30 4x5s scanned in about 25 minutes or so this way, so it's quite fast. But of course then I have to do the inversions and output processing. Next, digital capture is still not 'perfect'. I need to do a lot of tweaks to deal with issues of reverse vignetting, possibly even some flare. It's...fiddly. At very high resolution the dust is atrocious seemingly no matter what I do...

    I'm attracted to the pro flatbed workflow because:

    1. It seems like the scans will be better, and still allow me to capture the full sheet. My clients love the film edges.
    2. It seems like I'll be able to set up a certain number of sheets and 'walk away', allowing me to multitask.
    3. The dust control is front loaded in the workflow so maybe possibly perhaps I'll be able to mitigate it as much as possible?
    4. I can still use Negative Lab Pro, which I think does a great job when well handled.

    Micheal Streeter informed me that a 4000ppi 4x5 scan from an IQSmart3 will take 50 minutes. I'm curious what it looks like at 2000ppi? Or when scanning an 8x10 sheet, at 1000ppi? My 50 and 100mp size targets don't stress the scanner or film very much so I'm curious how much I can get done in a day when using these reduced figures.

    Thanks for the input here!

    BTW, an Eversmart Supreme Pro II was also recommended but they're closer to 10k which is out of my price range. Even the refurbished IQSmart3 is stretching the budget to some extent. I'm going to have justify it by doing lots of jobs with it.... If you're curious about my lab, it's called Northeast Photographic and we're in Maine. We do all formats but sheet film is run in Jobo ATLs using Expert Drums and 2509n reels. We have an ATL3 and an ATL2500. We use Flexicolor C41, replenished Xtol, and Fuji-Hunt 6 bath E6. A sheet of 4x5 C41 film scanned to 50mp starts at around $10.00.

  7. #17
    Unwitting Thread Killer Ari's Avatar
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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Wish I could answer your questions, I'm waiting to pick up an IQ Smart 2, but the US/Canada border remains closed for now.
    Get in touch with forum member Pali K, and look up some older Creo/Eversmart threads.
    My old Eversmart Pro was great for batch scanning, so you'll enjoy that part of the workflow.
    Maybe you can do just as well with the less expensive IQ Smart 2? Or you may have computers and software that will work better with the 3.
    In any case, I don't think you'll ever regret getting a Creo scanner, they are a pleasure to use.

  8. #18

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    >> ... I'm considering an IQSmart3..
    Finally!

    If you are looking to scan 4x5 and larger, then an Evermart Pro II (3175 dpi optical) and higher Eversmart models could be as good if not a better choice than an IQSmart 3. They are faster and have better optics.
    Scanning with borders on a flatbed is not easy. It requires precise masking or you unavoidably will get flare and contrast reduction around edges. If you go with precise masking then it may negatively impact productivity as fewer sheets of film will "fit onto the glass", alignment of each sheet will be trickier and chances of getting dust all over - higher .
    Wet mounting is almost a must (to fight the dust , contrast reduction, and most importantly "un-flatness"\curling of film). Many may disagree ...
    If you decide on wet mounting - try to get your Smart with anti-newton glass instead of coated one (to save on buying the anti newton separately) . Wet mounting station is absolutely not required , a good roller is.

    Resolution-wise Smarts are as good if not better than a Tango (since you mentioned it), but they cant beat Tango in overall fidelity of image reproduction. IQSmart3 optics are not perfect and on a side by side with Tango scans on certain images with high frequency patterns it suffers from some chromatic aberrations that are absent in Tango.

    I won't by a Smart model that does not allow to scan into DT format (a Creo proprietary RAW).

    SergeyT

  9. #19

    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeyT View Post
    >> ... I'm considering an IQSmart3..
    Finally!

    If you are looking to scan 4x5 and larger, then an Evermart Pro II (3175 dpi optical) and higher Eversmart models could be as good if not a better choice than an IQSmart 3. They are faster and have better optics.
    Scanning with borders on a flatbed is not easy. It requires precise masking or you unavoidably will get flare and contrast reduction around edges. If you go with precise masking then it may negatively impact productivity as fewer sheets of film will "fit onto the glass", alignment of each sheet will be trickier and chances of getting dust all over - higher .
    Wet mounting is almost a must (to fight the dust , contrast reduction, and most importantly "un-flatness"\curling of film). Many may disagree ...
    If you decide on wet mounting - try to get your Smart with anti-newton glass instead of coated one (to save on buying the anti newton separately) . Wet mounting station is absolutely not required , a good roller is.

    Resolution-wise Smarts are as good if not better than a Tango (since you mentioned it), but they cant beat Tango in overall fidelity of image reproduction. IQSmart3 optics are not perfect and on a side by side with Tango scans on certain images with high frequency patterns it suffers from some chromatic aberrations that are absent in Tango.

    I won't by a Smart model that does not allow to scan into DT format (a Creo proprietary RAW).

    SergeyT
    Sadly the Eversmart Supreme is $8500.00. That's a bit more than my budget allows.

    Re flare, I had read on other threads here that people don't have much of an issue with flare even with not masking, so I'm surprised to hear you mention it. There is a user on Instagram who tags his images with IQSmart3 and he always scans with borders. They look great!

  10. #20

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    Re: Creo iQsmart3 and Supreme II scan speed

    Well, apparently they look great at Instagram size. Anything should
    And IQSmart3 is a high end scanner capable of delivering great results. But to get the best out of it certain things should be considered and measures taken.
    As an example try scanning an IT8 color target from here http://www.targets.coloraid.de/ and then "explore" with color picker variations in density over the Black patch of Gray scale at the bottom. That tiny vertical "White"(clear film) separator by Black patch bleeds into Black patch noticeably. This issue impacts all flatbeds. The Supreme is not immune neither...
    But that just a tiny "clear" window on the film and it still has some density to it. Imagine the effect of open border on light spill over the edge.
    Check page 21 of this doc also : http://www.hutchcolor.com/PDF/Scanning_Guide.pdf. That's all true and can be reproduced.

    Once you "nail" your workflow with Smart , I think you will be having hard time going back to digitizing with dSLR.
    Mounting a glass worth of film will be counted in minutes and then the machine will do everything for you. If productivity (or volumes) is what you looking for - consider getting a second base glass. So your scanner will never IDLE. While one mounted glass is in the scanner and being scanned , the second one will be mounted with another batch and ready.

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