Which lens is this E58 4x Rodenstock center filter for?

**Dan Fromm** · 17-Jul-2019, 10:58

https://web.archive.org/save/https:/...U/183883952075

The seller says(?) that the front threads are 72 mm. I'm aware of 1.5 stop 58 mm - 77 mm CFs for 65 and 75 Grandagons, this one is new to me.

**C_M** · 17-Jul-2019, 11:40

Never saw one like this Rodenstock...

Schneider has one that matches the description
Designation. IIi. 1.5 M58x0.75 M72x0.75
Recommended focal lengths. 43

****Sorry, matches except for the stops +2
****Here is another M58 4X...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-...MAAOSwKQJdH-Br
The box reference is 170002

Maybe for an Apo Grandagon 35mm or 45mm... but not sure.

**Dan Fromm** · 17-Jul-2019, 11:55

C_M, thanks for the reply. It is a 4x (2 stop) filter badged Rodenstock.

**Oren Grad** · 17-Jul-2019, 12:10

A few bits of information that don't quite resolve this:

The 6/95 edition of the Rodenstock "Lenses for Large Format Cameras" brochure, posted on the Camera Eccentric site, shows the 45 Apo-Grandagon as having a 58mm filter thread, though later catalogs list it as 67. But the center filter recommended for the 45 in a table in that catalog appears to be the same 1.5x filter used for the 65 and 75/6.8.

A page that you extracted from a later edition of the catalog - not sure of the date, as you posted separate files of pages extracted from the catalog, which likely has the date on the rear cover - lists the three Apo-Grandagons (35, 45, 55) as indeed requiring a 2-stop center filter, but shows them all as having a 67mm thread.

And anyway, the labeling style of the filter in the listing you've linked dates from considerably earlier than the mid-90s.

I thought about the 58 Grandagon for the Graflex XL, but that's specified as 67.

So this doesn't quite add up yet.

**Arne Croell** · 17-Jul-2019, 12:16

The Geronar-WA 90mm had a 58mm filter size. Since it is a double Gauss WA, it would have more falloff than a more modern 90mm WA design, which could explain the 4x center filter, although I do not know whether Rodenstock ever offered any center filters for it (since I am travelling right now, I do not have access to my old Rodenstock or Linhof catalogs, which might answer that question).

**Bob Salomon** · 17-Jul-2019, 12:22

Originally Posted by Oren Grad

A few bits of information that don't quite resolve this:

The 6/95 edition of the Rodenstock "Lenses for Large Format Cameras" brochure, posted on the Camera Eccentric site, shows the 45 Apo-Grandagon as having a 58mm filter thread, though later catalogs list it as 67. But the center filter recommended for the 45 in a table in that catalog appears to be the same 1.5x filter used for the 65 and 75/6.8.

A page that you extracted from a later edition of the catalog - not sure of the date, as you posted separate files of pages extracted from the catalog, which likely has the date on the rear cover - lists the three Apo-Grandagons (35, 45, 55) as indeed requiring a 2-stop center filter, but shows them all as having a 67mm thread.

And anyway, the labeling style of the filter in the listing you've linked dates from considerably earlier than the mid-90s.

I thought about the 58 Grandagon for the Graflex XL, but that's specified as 67.

So this doesn't quite add up yet.

When the 45 was first released it had a 58mm thread. Shortly after it was changed to 67mm to accept the same cf as the 55 and 35mm ApoGrandagons. It did originally use the 58mm cf but I don’t remember how dense it was.

**Oren Grad** · 17-Jul-2019, 12:26

Further to Arne's point, the Geronar-WA would be the right era for that labeling style.

Thanks, Bob - that's an interesting wrinkle on this. IDLE SPECULATION WARNING: perhaps they decided to standardize the Apo-Grandagons on 67mm after running out of old-stock 2-stop 58mm CF's originally offered for the Geronar-WA.

**Dan Fromm** · 17-Jul-2019, 12:44

Thanks for all the replies.

To add to the confusion, I can document two CFs offered for Apo-Grandagons. Early ones were 2.5 stops, threaded M67x0.75 at the rear and M86x1.0 at the front. Later ones were 2.0 stops with the same threading.

The CF in the listing claims to be threaded 72 mm in front, would probably be tight on any of the A-Gs.

To add more to the confusion, I just looked up the 90/6.8 Geronar-WA. R'stock claims that it covers 85 degrees, which makes me think that since they don't recommend CFs for lenses that cover < 100 degrees there is none for the 90/6.8 Geronar-WA. It certainly doesn't need a 2 stop CF, 1.5 is more than enough. Its filter threads are M58, though.

**Arne Croell** · 17-Jul-2019, 13:18

Originally Posted by Dan Fromm

Thanks for all the replies.

To add to the confusion, I can document two CFs offered for Apo-Grandagons. Early ones were 2.5x, threaded M67x0.75 at the rear and M86x1.0 at the front. Later ones were 2.0x with the same threading.

The CF in the listing claims to be threaded 72 mm in front, would probably be tight on any of the A-Gs.

To add more to the confusion, I just looked up the 90/6.8 Geronar-WA. R'stock claims that it covers 85 degrees, which makes me think that since they don't recommend CFs for lenses that cover < 100 degrees there is none for the 90/6.8 Geronar-WA. Its filter threads are M58, though.

Dan, that recommendation is most likely for their modern WA lenses with approx. cos^3 falloff characteristics, whereas the Geronar WA will have cos^4 characteristics. The smaller front opening of 72mm, if true, would also point to a smaller angle of coverage. On the other hand, the Geronar WA was a budget lens mainly for photography students - not sure offering a center filter, which is expensive new, would have made sense economically, but who knows. Oren is right though that the engraving of the Rodenstock name is 1980's - early 1990's style, maybe even earlier. I have no information or numbers on the 1st generation, pre "N" or "MC", Grandagons from the 1970's, maybe it was for one of those? What about the old 58mm f/5.6 Grandagon for the Graflex XL, Linhof versions exist, too? Not sure what its filter size was.

**Dan Fromm** · 17-Jul-2019, 13:45

Arne, thanks for the suggestion.

I just looked in the catalog that Bob Salomon lent me some years ago (thanks again, Bob) and that I posted on my onedrive. The list has a link to it. Seems that the 65/5.6 and 75/6.8 Grandagon-N both take an E58/77 3x CF. The CF I asked about is marked 4x.

I also looked at an older R'stock catalog on Pacific Rim Camera's site. The list has a link to it too. It shows jes' plain Grandagons with no suffix, says that the 65/4.5 takes 67 mm filters and the 75/6.8 takes 58 mm. No mention of CFs.

Typos, perhaps?