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Thread: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

  1. #31
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    These are Velvia 50's single scanned with V600 and adjusted in Elements or LR afterwards. The shadows are fine. On some of them I even let them stay darker. I liked the contrast. But, I could have lightened them up even more with the shadow sliders. These were exposed correctly. I don't "save" under or overexposed shots to try to correct afterwards. Regarding scan stops, a single pass picks up the full range usually between 0-200.

    The other issue is that shadows usually contain less important info. Your eye goes to the lighter parts of the image and ignores shadow areas. Showing more detail there actually reduces the impact of most shots. Also, reducing contrast takes away the eye "candy".
    https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=...N05&view_all=1

  2. #32

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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    Effectively they're claiming a signal to noise improvement of about 1 stop - at the cost of apparently worse sharpness.
    Interneg, I see no sharpness loss. ME is often used for very dark slides that are absorbing near all light and they can reheat, sometimes the film can move from thermal deformation specially (I guess) with curled film, if it is the case then we can wet mount or simply use the ANR glass holders.

    just an opinion, I've not checked it well, but I saw no sharpness loss when I tested ME with an USAF 1951 glass slide.


    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    at least one is subjected to fairly vigorous de-noising or even outright blurring.
    Not IMHO, the V series are very "simple" animals, they have little image enhancing work inside, you have to always optimize (sharpen) image in Ps, delivering always a very raw image, while pro scanners optimize the image saving workforce needs, I prefer having a raw image and to optimize in Ps, but it requires an effort.





    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    And it's all fairly pointless in an era when digital sensors can be used as scanners with potentially 13-14 clean stops of dynamic range in a single shot
    No 13, 14 "clean" stops at all !!!

    Those spots in the dark areas where first 10 bits are zero have only 4 bits to describe tonality !! if you rise those shadows you will find insane banding.



    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    and more to the point, how many badly underexposed transparencies are you trying to dig detail out of?
    The Epson V850 is not the right tool for that, of course a Pro scanner would do a way better job for that. The V700-850 does an excellent job with all BW and Color Negative film, you will never reach the scanner density limitations. Also it is a very good performer with challenging Velvia/Provia if Multiexposure is used...

    ...but in extreme deep velvia shadows you reach the V850 limits, anyway probably you won't make much from a badly underexposed slide, you may "save the shot" if it's an important scene, but probably it won't rise big money at Christie's/Sotheby's (irony)

    ________


    One interesting thing (I guess) when scanning very dark velvia slides with a V850 (for 35mm, MF or sheets on glass) is masking the other holes in the film holder. The V850 takes 4 35mm strips or 2 MF strips, those holes take all the illumination power they can to produce flare, if you have an extremly dense slide then you may notice that flare.

    The Cheap Nikon LS-5000 reaches 4.24D (Silverfast guys say) but the expensive LS-9000 it reaches 4.0D "only", it is interesting to explore why.

  3. #33

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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    I'm still very strongly suspecting that there's no alterations to the drive mechanism or light, but two levels of image gain are blended on some specific basis & at least one is subjected to fairly vigorous de-noising or even outright blurring.
    Next we will be discussing if the moon landing happened... In the absence of the actual chip design, there is plenty of documentation that says it has this feature, it can be even found in the source code that epson released for a driver for these scanners some time ago. https://github.com/hean01/iscan/blob...ckend/epkowa.c

    Plus it simply works and behaves as expected...

    Adding an adjustable amplifier is no more difficult than adjusting the sensor timing. This type of technology uses a digital clock, which at the beginning closes a circuit for each light sensitive area. This brings the voltage to zero and removes the charge that has accumulated in the sensor. After a certain number of ticks another circuit is created for each sensor area and the charge that has accumulated in response to the number of the photons, is then measured as a voltage. Waiting more ticks of the clock is not hard. The light and stepper motor work exactly the same. Adding all the circuitry to store and compare two values in the same pass definitely adds a lot more circuits.

    It my understanding the flextights can also vary the timing, as can the coolscans. Interesting the flextight take a different approach to this problem an add active cooling to the sensor to reduce the noise. (i.e. better scan first time around)

    Comparing one scanners (ancient) feature set against another is sort of meaningless IMHO, it only useful to helping you maximise the use of your existing scanner, or building your own.

    FWIW the no expense spared arriscan uses two passes.

  4. #34

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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    I think the IQsmart 3 and maybe Eversmart Supreme have a chip cooler.

    I have to manage with a mere IQsmart 2 - boo hoo. And I don't try to scan anything more than once - it's my job to get the exposure right in the first place and I take my job seriously (well, most of the time)

  5. #35

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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    And they do !! from 3.1D to almost 3.4D

    Attachment 193224

    https://www.silverfast.com/highlight...posure/es.html



    The 3.4D (of the V700 with multiexposure) is way better than what the LS-9000 does without multiexposure...


    and the LS-9000 with multiexposure reaches supreme levels !!!


    Usual Silverfastpropaganda. -.-

    I did a few hundred testcans with the Epson V750 (Multi-Exposure) with the Coolscan 8000 (Multiexposure and Multipass) via Silverfast and Vuescan. To my mind the time required for multi-exposure and/or multipass isn't worth the increase in quality at all and there is no difference in quality between silverfast and vuescan.
    “When we have no thought of achievement, no thought of self, we are true beginners... This is also the real secret of the arts: always be a beginner.”
    - Shunryu Suzuki -

  6. #36

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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    Quote Originally Posted by shoshin View Post
    Usual Silverfastpropaganda. -.-

    To my mind the time required for multi-exposure and/or multipass isn't worth the increase in quality at all and there is no difference in quality between silverfast and vuescan.
    I don't agree at all, ME improvement it depends on the job... for regular BW and CN shots there is absolutely no difference, because those situations are no challenge for the V850 scanner, regarding film density.

    For Velvia/Provia slides Multi-Exposure makes a huge difference in the deep shadows having high density, there is an amazing improvement, anyway even with ME the V850 won't be able to reach the most challenging velvia shadows.

    Anyway those velvia ultra deep shadows may not have much pictorial interest most of the times.

    And yes... ME is time consuming, but drum scanning is more time consuming...




    Quote Originally Posted by shoshin View Post
    I did a few hundred testcans with the Epson V750 (Multi-Exposure) with the Coolscan 8000 (Multiexposure and Multipass)
    With ME you see a difference with the highest densities, but you have to mask the other the holes in the scanning area.

    The V750 illumination covers four 35mm strips, if you have a 3.2D slide in one of the holder holes but you have nothing (or low density slides) in the other three holes of the row.. those clear holes are taking as much flare as they can.

    The V750 lens is multicoated, but 3 open holes taking 5000 times more lights than the one than comes from the test slide is too much flare for any optical system.

    I point that because tests are useful when they are well done. Did you mask the other holes when testing ME with high densities ?


    To me, the information Silverfast gives about ME is completely fair, and in the conservative side.

  7. #37

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    Re: Does any scanner have a 3 exposure HDR scan option?

    When scanning my mentors daughter setting in front of the TV with the moon landing on the screen, it wasn't easy for my 4990 to get in one scan. Here's a novel concept, scan like you would shoot HDR. I made one scan for the room and another just for the screen. Processed as you would any HDR. Worked for me

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