Anyone have experience working with carbon fiber?
Anyone have experience working with carbon fiber?
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
*raises hand*Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt
But only very basic stuff, such as cutting, shaping, and sanding it smooth, as well as drilling large and small diameter holes in it.
Two decades ago, I also did some wet layup work with it to make some race car parts, but again, nothing very fancy.
My most recent project was to fabricate a rotating monitor mounting bracket using some carbon fiber sheet and an aluminum step-up ring:
What do you need to know?
Nice! I'm looking at adding some panels to my Intrepid to add stiffness to the bed, perhaps one of the sandwich varieties, with aramide honeycomb, foam, balsa or a basswood interior.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
Kool stuff, but not necessary... Add to the fact that it is expensive, can dull some cutting tools quickly, but worst is the fine dust is very toxic, and contaminate your shop forever...And thin flat panels have some flex in them, so there are other choices...
Your "sandwich" idea is good, as there are good combinations to be had... Me, I'd go with some thin high quality Baltic birch thin plywoods, sandwiched 2 pieces cross grained and start with that... Much easier to work!!!
Steve K
In my Wehman 8x10", both bed and standards have parts made of pcb-board material. Not so light, but nearly as stiff. Old furniture parts made of teak is also stiff, both front and back standard horizontal parts of my Bender are made out of a sleeping sofa back support.
Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix
Why not aluminum?
Stone Photo Gear
https://www.stonephotogear.com/
Cut with a wet diamond saw. No dust issues. I’m rebuilding my 7x17 to have a lot of CF. Using a tile saw to cut the pieces. The blade has its own reservoir and dust isn’t an issue.
FWIW, I’m using 6mm sheet. I can’t flex it.
Lachlan.
You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky
Hmm...
In my experience tinkering with technical and view cameras, trying to add stiffness to a part after-the-fact is very tricky, because once you address the first weak link, the second weak link usually surfaces immediately and may, in fact, offset most or all of the improvement you achieved by addressing the first weak link.
And once you address the first and second weak links, the third weak link invariably appears, etc.
In this specific instance, making the bed stiffer might not yield any net benefit at all, given how the standards are designed, made, and attach to it.
Mind you, I'm not saying you can't improve the performance of your Intrepid 8x10 by stiffening / strengthening various parts -- well, at least the rigidity of those parts, which may or may not result in improved performance -- only that doing so is a lot like squeezing a balloon, in that when you squeeze it here, it will often bulge there instead of not bulging at all. This is especially true of thicker pieces of carbon fiber, as they will ring like a bell when tapped, dissipating any vibrations / energy very slowly unless some type of damping material is applied to it.
As for working with carbon fiber honeycomb material, remember that you should cover the open sides somehow or risk its performance degrading over time. You also can't just drill holes in it, but should install sleeves to prevent the screws from causing the honeycomb material to collapse around the screws when they are tightened.
In short, applying band-aids to improve the performance of the basic design may or may not be effective and/or ultimately worth the effort. In some cases, I can even foresee "improvements" to the camera actually causing its performance to decline somewhat.
But if you're a natural-born tinkerer with all things electrical and mechanical, as I am, then none of this will change your mind or stop you, so have at it! Just be prepared to experiment quite a bit, as you will find you often take two steps forward and one step backward (or sometimes even three steps backward!) before you achieve your goal.
Just my two-cents worth, arbitraged through the peso...
Good stuff, Guys. Thanks. Great tip, Lachlan. I have a wet diamond saw made for tile cutting. The plan was to add some rigidity w/o adding much weight, as well as adding some damping material, probably the kind used in automotive situations.. The Intrepid's base is open. I will try clamping some materials in various places to see what effect it has. The aluminum base is a bit springy. It has about 6" of unsupported horizontal distance from the tripod mount to where the back attaches. I can see the flex, and it allows the back to "flutter" when lightly tapped. I also have some aircraft alloy aluminum on hand, and I can machine some parts out of it.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
I wouldn't call myself a carbon fiber expert, but I have built a camera incorporating parts milled from CF (mostly 2, 3, and 4mm panels):
Details are on this thread:
http://https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?151548-Work-in-progress-Ultralight-4X5-build-with-Carbon-Fiber-3D-printed-plastic
Curious, LabRat--do you have links to SDS lit or peer-reviewed research to support toxicity and contamination claims? Reason I ask, before I started working with CF I talked pretty extensively with my boss, who runs a machine shop and mills CF on a regular basis (the shop I run is wood-focused). Also talked with folks at a large research facility here on campus who develop applications for recycled CF and process a lot of it. This is in a state with some the most stringent environmental health and safety requirements in the nation, and all of us sit on the safety committee. If CF toxicity is out of the ordinary for materials we're used to, it would be good to know.Kool stuff, but not necessary... Add to the fact that it is expensive, can dull some cutting tools quickly, but worst is the fine dust is very toxic, and contaminate your shop forever...
My experience with Baltic birch (and I use a lot of it) is finding a piece of thinner stock that's truly flat is tough. That's part of why I went with CF, in spite of the weight penalty vs. wood. I have some aluminum/HDPE composite I plan to use for my next camera build, but it's not quite as flat or stiff as CF. And getting glue to stick to aluminum is nowhere near as easy as CF.
No question CF is hell on tools, though. Anything less than carbide is not going to work, and even carbide dulls pretty quickly. Getting feeds and speeds correct helps, and reduces dust production to a minimum. I don't experience any airborne dust when I'm milling CF. I also found a source for good quality cutters that are inexpensive enough to treat as disposable. I drill holes with diamond bits run wet, and smooth cut edges with hand sanding (wet or dry) to reduce or prevent dust production. The dust is messy--think powdered graphite--but I wouldn't say my shop is contaminated.
Last edited by DDrake; 3-Jul-2019 at 11:11.
David
Comments and critique always welcome.
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