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Thread: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

  1. #11

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    Re: exposed film

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    I have no idea what you are carrying on about, Max. Just take your camera and shoot some film. Most of that stuff you seem concerned about rarely happens.
    Concur...OP sounds like an overthinker.

    If you must, carry a 5x7 pocket portfolio to show off your photos.

  2. #12

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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    I have photographed almost exclusively at night for more than a decade now, using both a modified Toyo VX23D view camera, as well as a modified Cambo WDS technical camera, and as a result, I have been hassled by homeowners, security guards, and police more times than I can count or remember.

    When I first started doing this type of photography, any people who were concerned about what I was doing would usually approach me, at which point I could be friendly and explain it to them. Over the past few years, though, people have started keeping their distance and just call the police instead, so there's zero chance of being friendly and/or explaining anything to them today.

    In fact, most of times the police are called on me these days -- which this happens roughly every couple of months, including even earlier this morning while I was photographing around my neighborhood with my camera and my dog between 1:30 and 3:00 am! -- I had no idea I was being observed. (Of course, I always assume as much, hence I'm very careful not to trespass or otherwise call attention to myself.)

    As a practical matter, then, I don't think there's much you can do to prevent any encounters and especially not with the police. That said, unless you're trespassing -- or in NYC, at least, in possession of a camera while walking across a bridge or near critical infrastructure, where local ordinances prohibit such things -- you really won't need to explain your actions to anyone, because most (but by no means all) police are familiar with the various laws concerning photography in public places. Your mileage may differ, of course, but it's been my experience (especially when photographing at night in NYC!) that the less time you spend interacting with the police, the better, and the less information you volunteer about yourself and what you're doing, the better.

    The police aren't dummies and when it becomes clear that you're knowledgeable about the law generally and specifically the laws regarding photographing in public by politely but firmly pushing back against them, they will usually not to try to intimidate you or bluff you by threatening to cite and/or arrest you for loitering or obstructing traffic or various other minor crimes the specific details of which you're probably not very familiar but potentially sound scary.

    In fact, unless they formally detain you, the law in most states doesn't even require you to provide the police with your name or identification! I realize that most people will find themselves feeling intimated when dealing with the police, so pushing back to the fullest extent the law allows will likely make them uncomfortable. But keep in mind the police have been trained to take advantage of your discomfort and you most likely haven't been trained in how to legally resist them, so you're very much at a disadvantage in this situation.

    For instance, I was once approached by the NYC police while I was photographing the Hell Gate Bridge from Randall's Island. I was friendly, answered their questions, and showed them my photos on the LCD of my digital camera. One of the two police officers asked me why the photos were tinted dark red and I explained it was because I had modified my camera so it captured only infrared light and the red tint would go away after I converted the photo to B&W. "You mean like a spy camera?" he asked.

    Needless to say, that changed everything about the encounter and I ended up being formally detained (but not arrested ... and Yes, there is a difference!) and investigated for the following two hours until I was finally released. Whereas if I had simply kept my mouth shut and answered only the questions I was legally required to do, they likely would have left me alone and I would have been on my way again in just a few minutes. I learned a very valuable lesson that day, to be sure!

    To summarize: While it's nice to think you can talk your way out of being harassed, my experience is that if you're going to be harassed, then you're going to be harassed, period. As such, it's my experience that the best approach is to keep your mouth shut as much as the law of your state allows -- always politely but firmly, of course! -- and get the encounter to end as quickly as you possibly can, even if it means giving up on the photo you were taking and walking away from the police, as you are legally allowed to do so long as you're not being detained.

    Of course, the best approach for me might not be the best approach for you, but I strongly encourage you to at least educate yourself about the law so you'll know what what your options are when -- not if -- you are hassled the next time.

    P.S.: My personal record is having six police cars and, IIRC, 10 police officers respond to a call about me photographing from a canal path that was open to the public, but located near Sky Harbor Airport. I was able to take the following photo before they they made me step away from the camera, then huffed and puffed at me for 20 minutes before releasing me, as they had no alternative but to do because I wasn't doing anything illegal or even improper:


  3. #13
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    Just know your neighborhoods. Makes no difference whether it is urban or rural. There are a percentage of bad people everywhere, including a few rogue cops, so just use common sense and avoid unnecessary encounters. Arguing with law enforcement is NOT a smart strategy, whether or not you are in the right, legally. Better to cooperate. Even good cops have bad days and can run low on patience. In some neighborhoods, residents are paranoid about any kind of outsider. Having a view camera versus something small makes no difference. Way out in ranching country, someone might see a big tripod and assume you're a surveyor working for some developer planning to steal their property, which actually happens at times. But I've had city situations where a big view camera became a benign conversation piece to passers-by, whereas an SLR might be interpreted as intrusive spying on their privacy. Causing an obstruction with your gear on a busy road or sidewalk is an understandable offense, at least in terms of basic politeness. Nosing around power plants, critical urban bridges, or certain government facilities that might in fact be potential terrorist targets is yet another situation, and you need to understand responsible concern from law enforcement. Every year there are certain photographic opportunities I pass up due to personal safety concerns; but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's relatively rare occurrence when I get bothered. I could almost count them on one hand after forty years of large format photography.

  4. #14

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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Just know your neighborhoods. Makes no difference whether it is urban or rural. There are a percentage of bad people everywhere, including a few rogue cops, so just use common sense and avoid unnecessary encounters. Arguing with law enforcement is NOT a smart strategy, whether you are in the right, legally. Better to cooperate. Even good cops have bad days and can run low on patience.
    Of course, it goes without saying the potential always exists for any approach you choose when dealing with the police to take a turn for the worse, just as there are, in fact, times when not wearing a seat belt and being thrown clear of the car in accident will save your life, not cause your death.

    But cooperating fully with the police doesn't automatically mean responding to every one of their questions.

    IMO, the best approach, as I stated above, is to educate yourself about your options and then respond as you deem appropriate to the particular situation you find yourself in at any given time.

    There may indeed be a time when I decide that answering all the questions the police ask me is the best course of action and if so, then that is what I will do ... never say never, eh?

  5. #15
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    I've got sort of the opposite situation here... I'm 6' tall, big, buzzcut hair, and nobody gives me a hard time. Most likely if I attract attention with a LF or MF camera, it's from someone my parent's age or older who had fond memories of the graflex or rolleiflex back in the day, when they used one at the newspaper, their dad brought one home from the war, etc...

    Dress professionally, not like a rich guy wanting to be robbed, but not like a thug either.. Don't dress in all black. You might find a talkative extrovert friend to go along.. They can run interference and socialize and keep an eye on people reducing your distraction.

    If you are wanting to shoot at dusk or night, skip the cheap film and use Acros, Tmax, or Delta for better reciprocity. If you want to show people what you do for photography, get a small pocketable blurb book made of your portfolio, point to your name on the cover and say, "That's me".

  6. #16

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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    Enjoy your freedom now (post 9/11) as lotsa people are shooting their fone or cameras, and is not too strange to others that you are shooting too...

    The NYC area was difficult to shoot the next to last decade due to higher security (paranoidia), but has passed long ago...

    There still might be restrictions from Port Authority etc about what you can shoot, but you can find that on their websites, but also, print a copy to take with you while shooting, to show the overzealous cop or others it is ok...

    Just shoot, don't worry about it, be mindful of the rules and others, but but calm, cool, collected at all times, don't argue with anyone but just leave if asked, and just step up to the plate calmly if questioned, but mostly HAVE FUN!!!

  7. #17
    Les
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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    Having to live in Kearny (in previous life :>) and working in Secaucus, I'll try to, perhaps, address your issue. I can understand your apprehension and to larger degree this is being bred locally. Instead pointing the finger at people or police (any sort of stereotype), I'd encourage you to find places outside the concrete jungle (NJ being the largest /sq mile population)....and eventually ease back into it on your own terms. There is plenty to photograph up and down the E. Coast, w/o having to deal with large cities. Furthermore, the more you understand what can or cannot be photographed (local laws & jurisdictions), the better footing you'll have when the cops arrive. Not sure if this will work for you, but sometimes defection and piece of mind can be a good thing.

    Sure, having someone else with you can be a good thing (often a luxury). This forum has several wonderful photographers and one of them lives up in CT and have photographed NYC skyline (night) from Hoboken......so it can be done w/o major encounters. Anyway, enjoy the LF and there is no point being on the edge....or inducing stress into it. Best of luck.

    Les

  8. #18

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    Re: exposed film

    Ok, this one I understand.
    noted. And for the admins, thank you for moving the thread.
    I was not expecting a lot of response.
    Will do for the sheet film, have to dive, my best 10 years is now at 39 years of age.
    Have to do this.


    Noted: Gebhardt post.

  9. #19

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    Jul 2017
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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    Understood.
    1) I will just purchase one set for 54, and will try out Sp-445 (Mr. Klein has the Sp-8x10+ prepped for prod.)

    2) Know and understand the situation. Noted on that giving it away, leading to more issues.

    3) The attire is a good key note. I already wear a buzz cut, maybe get a better carry pack since I do mostly military packs (durable) so maybe make it look "proper".

    4) Scout and learn areas where there is less foot traffic. But I am aware of federal strucs as a no-go. I understand the apprehension, needless to say I can see both sides of a situation.

    5) Yes I have to finally churn out 69's 54's and 57's. I have a T6 EOS earlier cannon but I still use couplers on it. ( I use the mechanical lenses sans the chip ring and rarely use it)

    6) I have to say I never thought I would get the opportunity to educate myself with LF, I started with a Bialoski Bear camera takes a 110 and was a pinhole camera then moved to a
    Pentax K1000 ( grandfather spent a lot of time in flea markets in S.F.) and when I learned how to use a 2x3 graflex I knew I just had to transition to LF despite the slow burn process.

    7) I understand the do not stress bit, I just thought and added the P.S. since it was mostly the used film I was inquiring; and added the PATH bit because of :

    I am understanding why the camera lenses have numbers on them (slr) and why the LF is called a technical camera and you slow down and start thinking somewhat
    ( I am content with 4 54 sheets if I know I did it right or 8 frames of 69s or less) as long as I learn

    And whatever it is that becomes a positive obsession in life is an "investment", i.e. results always take time, does not happen overnight. Slow cooked or slow burn whichever might work.

    8) Duly noted responses and my gratitude for the useful notes to the ff:

    Audii-Duddii
    Faberryman
    Gebhardt
    Goldstein
    Invisibleflash
    JP
    Labrat
    Ron
    Shaw
    Stafford
    Two23/Kent
    Vogt
    Wasserman
    Wiley
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    Max
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  10. #20

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    Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street

    I think you will probably find that photographing 4x5 is more likely to bring people in out of curiosity rather than harassment. People see a person with a wooden box on a tripod and they do not think terrorist, they think of their weird uncle. Or perhaps it really has changed in the 12 years since I have not lived in the US? I have to admit I am discouraged to see so much about safety in this and the night thread...

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