Affordable 8x10: Any Other Game than Intrepid?

[Charles S]

It looks nice, but no revolving back, correct? Also the price is now 990 euro.

Movement on the back is limited to tilt. I use it for portraits so that is enough movement for me. Bought it used.

[sperdynamite]

I got my Chamonix 810V! First, wow what a difference. This thing is an image making machine. It even smells great. I have no doubt that my large plasmats will sit securely on here. I LOVE the swing back design with the handle. It accepts the film holder so smoothly!

But the Gibellini Curse continues.

So, thinking I was avoiding issues with light leaks from used film holders (ha HA ha HA ha HA) I have purchased 5 Gibellini FH810s. I know, I know, but I like to be confident in my equipment when shooting ultra expensive film. Well it makes sense that my Fidelity equipment does not fit in the Bellatrix. The FH810s don't fit in the Chamonix! They sit slightly loosely, and the little lip does not go into the female slot, which would hold the FH in place when removing the darkslide.

Like my backless Bellatrix, the FH810s are completely useless to me now. This is hundreds of dollars in film holders. I don't even know what to do at this point. I mean, I could ask Gibellini for a refund on returned equipment, but we all know the response back I am likely to get. Also (in theory) my equipment is on my way back to them so I'd like to not burn the bridge before they (in theory) fix it and return it to me.

I feel like a real dupe. I might as well have just lit a pile of cash on fire.

[Ari]

I feel like a real dupe. I might as well have just lit a pile of cash on fire.

Yup, been there too.
And Gibellini is a vast, confusing mess: cameras and holders. For some reason, they seem to be popular in Europe, so you could sell your holders to someone there.
I bought Toyo holders a long time ago, and have stuck with them. If the camera doesn't accept them, the camera goes. They're worth the extra money.
Turn the page, and keep going.

[sperdynamite]

I have asked Alesandro for a refund, I think I know how this is going to go, but it's worth a try. When that fails as I'm sure it will, I will work with AMEX for my money back. Who knows? Maybe someone will have my back here.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Yup, been there too.
And Gibellini is a vast, confusing mess: cameras and holders. For some reason, they seem to be popular in Europe, so you could sell your holders to someone there.

Hi, they're not popular at all in Europe. European buyers don't want to get false holders.

I think that in forums like ours we have to be much more rigid about poor quality. We have to exchange experiences relentlessly. I already thought that when I bought an Intrepid camera. I don't like this beta-testing philosophy. Something will change? Only through honest discussion and voting with our feet and our wallets. Be it that the companies go bankrupt, be it that their stuff is no longer sold and better replaces the bad.

[Peter De Smidt]

Changing topics, I used my Intrepid 810 Mk II yesterday. I'm going to have to add something under the front standard to keep it from inadvertently moving, the mounting plate is too thin to hold the mounting bolt securely with a Really Right Stuff Arca plate. I'll have to think of something. The ground glass is pretty dim. I might try grinding it a bit with some aluminum oxide, or maybe I should just make a whole new screen. Finally, the spring arrangement on the back is terrible. It's very easy for them to slide off the ground glass frame. What all of this means is that it's very hard to just focus on finding a good composition. Little niggles are regularly pulling my attention back to annoying mechanics. Alas, I had to close my studio down, and so my workshop is filled with photo gear. Otherwise, I'd finish my 5x7 back for the camera, which'll use a Deardorff back as the main part. I have a couple of low-end 8x10s right now. I should've just bit the bullet and bought a Chamonix or Wehman. I suppose I should make a new 8x10 back, but then my free time will be spent building instead of photographing.

[Bernice Loui]

Of all the foldable 8x10 cameras owned-used over the decades, best of them all is the Toyo 810M with a Sinar front frame. Sinar frame allowed using a Sinar shutter between the front standard and bellows. This modification allows using a very long list of barrel lenses on what is IMO, the best foldable 8x10 camera made. The objection to an Toyo 810M could be weight, then again anyone doing 8x10 should accept the reality and fact 8x10 will never be a lightweight film format. Once away from a foldable, it is back to a Sinar Norma be it 4x5, 5x7 or 8x10.

Having been around low cost poorly designed, poorly constructed cameras over the decades, the more one expects from a camera, the more difficult it becomes to tolerate the niggling hassles with a lesser camera. Will the lesser camera make images, absolutely yes. Difference being a truly GOOD design, precise, and nicely made camera is very nice to use and gets in the way less when specific demands are placed on the camera during the image making process. Personally, tolerance for a poorly made and inadequate view camera is about zero. The goal is image making _ print making not futzing with a view camera that cannot do what is asked of it.


Bernice

Changing topics, I used my Intrepid 810 Mk II yesterday. I'm going to have to add something under the front standard to keep it from inadvertently moving, the mounting plate is too thin to hold the mounting bolt securely with a Really Right Stuff Arca plate. I'll have to think of something. The ground glass is pretty dim.

I should've just bit the bullet and bought a Chamonix or Wehman. I suppose I should make a new 8x10 back, but then my free time will be spent building instead of photographing.

[Daniel Unkefer]

Howard Bond looked at my Norma (he uses Deardorffs) and he said, "It's like comparing a Apollo Moon Buggy to a Model T).

Some like Deardorffs (I had one and sold it). Now own four Normas

[Corran]

The objection to an Toyo 810M could be weight, then again anyone doing 8x10 should accept the reality and fact 8x10 will never be a lightweight film format.

Not to be a broken record here, but you haven't used a Wehman 8x10 I would guess.

Really, I don't know why they weren't more popular, other than being called "ugly." It certainly doesn't have the old-school charm of the Chamonix and other fine wooden cameras, nor the modern aesthetic of metal cameras, but I think it has its own space-age feel.

[Bernice Loui]

No love for wood cameras here.

Edit, having owned more than one Dorf and others... never wood again. Simply lacks precision. Friend ordered a Chamonix before they were officially imported to the USA, nice to look at, nice finish, light weight, lacks the precision of a GOOD metal camera ... like Toyo 810M or Sinar Norma or a GOOD Linhof.

Then the lack of a Sinar shutter is the deal buster. Not being able to use barrel lenses or older lenses with questionable shutters filters out any camera lacking a shutter like this.

Oh, let's add bellows limitations, about zero bellows limitations with a Sinar, bellows limitations with a good number of others.


Bernice

Not to be a broken record here, but you haven't used a Wehman 8x10 I would guess.

Really, I don't know why they weren't more popular, other than being called "ugly." It certainly doesn't have the old-school charm of the Chamonix and other fine wooden cameras, nor the modern aesthetic of metal cameras, but I think it has its own space-age feel.