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Thread: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

  1. #1

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    Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    Hello all:

    I am new to the forum and new to large-format. I am working with Ilford Delta 100 bw, 8x10 film.

    I am seeing these dark clouds upon developing. I even went so far as to mix a new batch of chemistry with great care. In the image I have attached I am exaggerating the contrast to show the problem. It's not as severe but it should not be there.

    I am hoping someone in the forum can help.

    Thank you all,

    Emile
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails dark clouds.jpg  

  2. #2
    popdoc's Avatar
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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    I had something like this happen the first time I combined delta 400 and photographers formulary TF – 4 rapid fixer for the first time. The negatives did not clear completely using the “recommended“ time…

    Perhaps you are having a similar event?

    You can “finish the job“ by putting the negatives back in the fixer for another 5 to 10 minutes, and that may solve the problem. Wash as usual thereafter.

    Best of luck!

    Experience is quite a teacher...

    I am still learning, that’s for sure :-)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    how are you processing your film ? looks like developing issues to me. cld be poor fixing as well. does the negatve look slightly milky in the affected areas ?
    notch codes ? I only use one film...

  4. #4
    bob carnie's Avatar
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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    Insufficient agitation in the first 20 seconds of development... the single most common cause of this issue.

  5. #5

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    That looks like uneven development, how are you deving the negs?

  6. #6

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    Hey all:

    Many thanks for your kind replies. I still need help and I have been unable to make any progress.

    I'll try and outline my dev process as simply as possible and then add comments in response to all the suggestions. Again, I really appreciate your notes and would appreciate any further insight.

    NOTE: The film I started seeing this problem with was Kodak TMAX 400 BW. However, I switched films and the image I added in my original post was from Ilford Delta 100 BW. So I am seeing the problem on two different types of films.

    First, my dev process:

    I am using all Sprint Systems Chemicals.

    • Starting out with a 1 min water soak.
    • Developer was "Sprint Systems of Photography FL020-R" diluted 1:9 as recommended by the manufacturer. Dev agitation for 7 mins to 8:30 mins depending on the temp.
    • 1 min Stop. Again, "Sprint Systems of Photography SB020-R" diluted 1:9 as recommended by the manufacturer.
    • 6 Mins in Fixer. "Sprint Systems of Photography FX004-R" diluted 2:8 as as recommended by the manufacturer.
    • 1 Min water bath.
    • 3 Mins Fixer Remover (Hypo) "Sprint Systems of Photography FR004-R " diluted 1:9 as recommended by the manufacturer.
    • 1 Min Photo Flo.
    • 15 Minutes drying time.

    I slowly worked to eliminate possible issues of light leaks, humidity, chemistry etc. But no luck. I even tried mixing fresh batches of chemicals and got the same result.

    I even refixed some of the negs, but no go.

    One big item I should mention: I have always been told to use 1-size up trays for dev; use 8x10 trays for 4x5 negs and use 11x14 trays for 8x10 negs etc. For various reasons I have always ignore this advice. I have processed hundreds of 4x5 negs in 4x5 trays without any issues. All these 8x10 negs were devloped in 8x10 trays. I mention this because I occasionally I see people pointing this out as a possible issue.

    Below please see my notes to all the helpful comments:

    >>G Benaim
    >>That looks like uneven development, how are you deving the negs?

    Please see above for details.

    >>bob carnie
    >>Insufficient agitation in the first 20 seconds of development... the single most common cause of this issue.

    In my case, I always start out with a full 30-sec constant agitation for each bath. Then slow down to a few seconds of agitation for every 30 secs. I am very consistent with this.

    >>Fred L
    >>how are you processing your film ? looks like developing issues to me. cld be poor fixing as well. does the negatve look slightly milky in the affected areas ?

    It's kind of milky, I guess. On the negative it looks more like a white cloud. Of course when made positive it turns black. Just to eliminate poor fixing, I refixed the negs by soaking in water for 4 mins then fix for 6, the 1 min water, 3 mins Hypo and 1 min Photo flo. None of that removed the problem.


    >>popdoc
    >>I had something like this happen the first time I combined delta 400 and photographers formulary TF – 4 rapid fixer for the first time. The negatives did not clear completely using the “recommended“ time…
    >>Perhaps you are having a similar event?
    >>You can “finish the job“ by putting the negatives back in the fixer for another 5 to 10 minutes, and that may solve the problem. Wash as usual thereafter.

    Tried that. Not for 10 minutes but for 6 and that seems to have made no difference.

  7. #7

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    Last year (I think) someone had a similar issue that ended up being the darkslides were not opaque and causing light to bleed through. They were toyo holders if I am not mistaken. Long shot, but it could be this.

  8. #8

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    Quote Originally Posted by blue4130 View Post
    Last year (I think) someone had a similar issue that ended up being the darkslides were not opaque and causing light to bleed through. They were toyo holders if I am not mistaken. Long shot, but it could be this.
    Thanks so much for your reply. I can test this by overlaying various scans as layers in Photoshop to spot any similarities. I've done that without results. Also, I have used most of these holders in a previous project, without any issues.

  9. #9

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    If the "clouds" look milky on the film, as you say, then it is almost definitely underfixing. The fact that they didn't clear up when refixing points to inactive fixer. Test your fixer with a strip of film to see if the fixer clears film quickly. Fresh rapid fix should clear film in under one minute. If that's not the case, mix a new batch from a new bottle (your old concentrate is dead) or mix fresh powder and try again.

    Best,

    Doremus

  10. #10

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    Re: Dark Clouds on Negative Development

    Two things come to mind. (1) The one minute water soak with constant agitation may be too short to ensure complete removal of the anti-halation layer on the base side of the film; I use 2 minutes and others have used even longer times. I'd think that any AH layer left on the negative should, in effect, increase the visible density and be seen as a lighter tone in the positive; although this would contradict what you've said is seen as a positive. Is your posted picture a negative or positive? (2) If that doesn't resolve the issue, then definitely change to an 11x14 (or larger) tray. Obviously, I'm groping at straws here.

    I think Doremus is closer to the solution, though.

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