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Thread: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

  1. #1

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    Question 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    I was wondering if the market offers a 4x5 field camera with geared movements.
    Basically a Chamonix F2 with the geared movements of the Arca Swiss F-field monorail.

    I've been looking at the Chamonix for my next upgrade, but thinking about what slows me down with my current setup (aside from my own fault) made me realize that having geared and precise movements, especially with tilt, would be a really nice improvement.

    Does anything like that exist?

  2. #2
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    Why not just stick with an Arca? They aren't that bulky, especially if the kit is put together with field use in mind. I borrowed an Arca f for a few weeks a couple of years ago. It's my favorite camera for use in the field that I've used, and I've used quite a few. If I had the money, I'd have one.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

  3. #3

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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    Field cameras are designed for portability: each brand saves size and weight by discarding some combination of geared movements, front or rear movements, yaw-free movements, rigidity, bellows length, precision machining, etc.

    As Peter said, Arca Swiss came closest to delivering all those features with the lightest weight - but at high cost. Even so, it doesn't fold down or compress to reduce size when traveling.

    For shooting indoors and within walking distance of my car, I use a Sinar P which provides fully geared yaw-free movements front and rear.

    I use a field camera only when hiking.

  4. #4
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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    The Toyo VX125/125b (NOT the 125R) has geared rise and shift, and AFAIK will be the lightest monorail camera with that feature. No geared tilt, though.

    I think a few field cameras have geared rise only.

    EDIT: But see Chuck Pere's post below re the Wisner Pocket Expedition:

    https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1504192
    Last edited by Oren Grad; 13-Jun-2019 at 08:41.

  5. #5

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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    The Arca Swiss Monolith has geared movements, their more common cameras do not. Arca does offer a folding rail that makes them easier to transport.

    There are hybrids like the Toyo VX.

    Geared camera movements are great when precision of camera movements are a must with repeatability. This need is most common for studio table top or similar image needs that often combine swing-tilt-shift-rise. For most outdoor Nature scenes, this is not often needed and why Field cameras tend not to be designed and made this way as lower weight is of prime concern.


    Bernice

  6. #6

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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    Quote Originally Posted by afxstudio View Post
    made me realize that having geared and precise movements, especially with tilt, would be a really nice improvement.

    Does anything like that exist?

    IMHO this is the wrong way, gearings are unnecessary and a problem in the field. Also IMHO this is the kind of improvement that's good for the field:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Precise, compact, easy to deploy, refined and range finder capable. Single probem is $ for the later models.

    _____


    With no gearing, if you rest your hand on the frame and clamp with your fingers on the movement you have a totally precise adjustment, with some practice.

    The real problem with movements in the field is tripod, after adjusting your movements you insert the film holder, tripod head can be "elastic", but it has to return to exactly the same direction after making force for inserting the holder, if not the plane of focus will move a lot. A good test is placing a laser toy pointer in the front standard to see if the camera returns to de same direction, or inserting-removing a holder and checking focus plane position again in the GG to see if it moved.

    If no tilt-swing a change in the camera direction only provocates a change in the framing, but if a tilt-swing is there then also the plane of focus moves in the scene.

  7. #7

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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    Sinar Norma-Pre Sinar Meter film back and Arca Swiss B series 5x7_13x18cm camera backs have a ground glass lifter to prevent the problem of camera movement after setting up the camera while inserting the film holder.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Results, zero camera shift when the film holder is loaded into the camera.


    Later Sinar meter back cameras lost this very nice feature.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Bernice

  8. #8

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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    I've owned and used two kinds of 4x5 field cameras and two kinds of rail cameras. I don't do studio work, but I do a lot of "field studio" shooting (up close, tight), so movements and flexibility mattered to me.

    Lately my favourite is an old rail camera, the Toyo D45M. I lusted after the Toyo VX125 that Oren mentions, but it's really expensive! Some forum members put me onto a sleeper in the Toyo lineup, the old D45M. These were designed for professionals, but in an era where things weren't too complicated yet -- so no yaw free movements and much less bulky than later Toyo rail cameras (except the VX125). You get geared rise/fall, geared shift, and geared focus on the rail. Swing and tilt are by finger pressure, and both are very smooth and intuitive. I actually prefer swing and tilt this way now that I've used the camera for a while; the movements are very precise and easy. Everything is adjustable in case of misalignment. The basic standards + short rail + lens board adapter + rotating film back come in at around 7.5 lbs. My Wista 45VX is only one pound lighter. On the short rail, the camera folds down to a relatively small package that easily fits into my small pack. In the picture where it's in the pack, there's no lens on the board; normally I carry it with whatever lens was on it the last time I used it. Also not shown is the compendium shade that clips onto the front.

    I tend to favour longer lenses over wider lenses, and I like working up close, so I needed lots of extension. The bellows on my D45M are new and lighter and thinner than OEM, so they compress down very nicely. I can use a 90mm lens with the flat lens boards and standard bellows (but almost no movements). If I throw on the 40mm recessed lens board, the standard bellows gives me lots of movements with the 90mm. And if I throw on the bag bellows, there's more movement with the 90mm than I'll likely use. I had the bellows maker put in a few extra folds, so with the two extension rails I can rack out to around 500mm and still have movements. I don't need that much extension because my longest lens is a 300mm, but it's nice to have the option.

    Because it's so simple, the camera sets up extremely quickly. I leave the rail clamp attached to my tripod, so setting up simply involves taking the camera out of the pack, putting it on the clamp, and (depending on lens) adding an extension rail.

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  9. #9

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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    IMHO this is the wrong way, gearings are unnecessary and a problem in the field. Also IMHO this is the kind of improvement that's good for the field:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Linhof_000130_MasterTechnika–cl.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	64.4 KB 
ID:	192352

    Precise, compact, easy to deploy, refined and range finder capable. Single probem is $ for the later models.

    _____


    With no gearing, if you rest your hand on the frame and clamp with your fingers on the movement you have a totally precise adjustment, with some practice.

    The real problem with movements in the field is tripod, after adjusting your movements you insert the film holder, tripod head can be "elastic", but it has to return to exactly the same direction after making force for inserting the holder, if not the plane of focus will move a lot. A good test is placing a laser toy pointer in the front standard to see if the camera returns to de same direction, or inserting-removing a holder and checking focus plane position again in the GG to see if it moved.

    If no tilt-swing a change in the camera direction only provocates a change in the framing, but if a tilt-swing is there then also the plane of focus moves in the scene.
    You neglected the weight.

  10. #10
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: 4x5 field camera with geared movements

    I don't like the Sinar metering back for field use. Anyway, don't the two smaller levers on the newer back work just fine for opening the back to insert a holder? I use my P2 in the field quite a bit.

    Rob, that Toyo looks like a great camera.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

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