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Thread: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

  1. #1
    Ron (Netherlands)'s Avatar
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    Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Recently I acquired a Perken, Son & Rayment camera. It is the so called Rayment's Patent camera; this one is half plate. The camera is however not complete: it is missing a lensboard and a lens, and further its little patent shield.
    It shouldn't be a problem to replicate the patent shield since there are some photo's of it on the internet. However, the lens board is quite a distinguishable part of this camera and I therefore would like to replicate an original as much as practicably possible. To be able to do that I would need exact measures and matching wood.

    Regarding the measures I would like to ask members who have such a camera, if they could:
    1. provide measures of the lensboard (width, height, thickness, and especially measures of the curved line at the upper right corner);
    2. to trace the outline/bounders of the board on a piece of paper or perhaps make a scan on a flatbed scanner - with a ruler for the measures? and make a copy available (online?);
    3. take the measures of the two breadboard ends of the board (the upper breadboard end has the curved line in it).

    Concerning the wood: the camera and lensboard were made from Hunduran mahogany. If someone has a little piece available, I would be most interested of course.

    Concerning a piece of brass hardware: since the lensboard is missing also the little brass plate on its top is missing. However this piece shouldn't be to hard to make out of a little piece of a brass plate.

    Here is a picture of a comparable camera complete with board and lens:



    On the below camera the breadboards can be seen more clearly:

    Last edited by Ron (Netherlands); 17-Jun-2019 at 05:23.
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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Don't have the Rayment.


    http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_C418.html

    Earlyphotography calls this fiddle-back mahogany (stipped) and I have had some about 10 years ago. I will try and locate it.
    I am not sure the lens board is made from 1 or 3 pieces. The thickness would suggest just 1 piece. The brass attachment was pretty standard at this time so there may some around on scrap cameras.

    Replacing the original lens is no problem (other than financial !) as it is a common Dallmeyer RR!

    I found the fiddle-back. It is from post WW2 reproduction furniture so is just "Mahogany".
    It is a reasonable match, but is veneered board which would be obvious with the curved edges!

  3. #3

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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    For the wood, look around at instrument builders. The Netherlands have some specialised suppliers for this like https://www.fijnhout.nl/hout-voor/ho...kinstrumenten/
    Expert in non-working solutions.

  4. #4
    Ron (Netherlands)'s Avatar
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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Tribe View Post
    Don't have the Rayment.


    http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_C418.html

    Earlyphotography calls this fiddle-back mahogany (stipped) and I have had some about 10 years ago. I will try and locate it.
    I am not sure the lens board is made from 1 or 3 pieces. The thickness would suggest just 1 piece. The brass attachment was pretty standard at this time so there may some around on scrap cameras.

    Replacing the original lens is no problem (other than financial !) as it is a common Dallmeyer RR!

    I found the fiddle-back. It is from post WW2 reproduction furniture so is just "Mahogany".
    It is a reasonable match, but is veneered board which would be obvious with the curved edges!
    Thank you Steven for having a look at the board and for the wood. It is probably the most beautiful type of Mahogany - the light really reflects looking at the wood from different angles - almost like Teak :-)

    Looking at the side of the board it seems there are three pieces put together each with a connecting spline. I've added a second picture in which the breadboards can be seen more clearly.
    I'll have a look here in some specialized wood shops. However at one of the websites they stated they would not have/sell any Honduran mahogany due to import restrictions. Therefore I'll also have a look at second/third hand furniture stores.

    Btw the one in the link you sent, is exactly like mine, so with more brass fittings than the one in the picture above.
    Last edited by Ron (Netherlands); 26-Jul-2019 at 04:46.
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    Ron (Netherlands)'s Avatar
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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc View Post
    For the wood, look around at instrument builders. The Netherlands have some specialised suppliers for this like https://www.fijnhout.nl/hout-voor/ho...kinstrumenten/
    Thanks Havoc, one of their shops is close by, but they stated that they do not sell this particular wood anymore. As answered to Steven, I'll have a look in second furniture stores.
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    Ron (Netherlands)'s Avatar
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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Until now no good luck with seeking the correct measures. There was a nice member @ APUG who at first site seemed to have a comparable camera with lens panel, but it turned out his is quite a bit bigger i.e. full frame. In the meantime I've found a comparable camera which is in the collection of an Australian museum (https://collection.maas.museum/object/159463), so I've asked them if they're willing to provide the measures.
    Further an English luthier (guitar builder) was willing to sell to me a very beautiful piece of Honduran Mahogany which matches the wood of my camera.

    <edit>Got recently a message from the Australian museum that they couldn’t provide any measures. The message reads as follows:
    "Thank you for getting in touch with the museum around your interest in our camera collection. Unfortunately the camera in question is on display at the moment and I have been informed that we are unable to access it to take your requested measurements until it comes off display. Which is not until June next year. The below listed website is a wonderful resource on early cameras and you may try reaching out to them to see if they know how you could access those measurements.
    http://www.earlyphotography.co.uk/site/entry_C418.html"

    However as you can read below, in the meantime a very nice fellow member provided me with all the measures needed....
    Last edited by Ron (Netherlands); 30-Jul-2019 at 08:47. Reason: putting in the message from the Australian museum
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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Here in the USA there are many outlets for craft grade hardwo lumber in large and small pieces, "Wood Crafter" ias one.

    Internationally, e-Bay often has listings for craft lumber. Take a look, maybe you will see something that will work for you.

    I understand that you are looking for a non-cash transaction. Why not post in the wanted forum?

    Matching wood will be one issue. A somewhat more difficult issue may be matching the finish.
    Drew Bedo
    www.quietlightphoto.com
    http://www.artsyhome.com/author/drew-bedo




    There are only three types of mounting flanges; too big, too small and wrong thread!

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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Hi Ron, I have both the half plate and the full plate, I have just dragged them out of boxes, will send photo's of the half plate shortlyClick image for larger version. 

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  9. #9

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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

    Click image for larger version. 

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    overall length is 5 13/16, tongue is 1/8th of an inch wide and 1/16th thick, plate thickness is 3/16.

  10. #10

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    Re: Rayments Patent camera - who has one? - need some measures

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