I'm in the market for an entry level 150mm lens, and found two equally priced options in fine condition, as follows:
- Rodenstock APO-Symmar S f/5.6 with an image circle of 210
- Fujinon W 150mm f/5.6 with an image circle of 245
I like the Fujinon's larger image circle, but I've read that Fujinons are super sharp - perhaps too sharp for some tastes. I'm wondering if there are differences in contrast.
Thoughts, experience?
I dream in black and white.
Rodenstock didn't make an apo-symmar. Schneider made Symmars. I like Fujinons, and so that's what I'd go with, but both are likely excellent.
“You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know
You're right, of course, Peter. I had made a list of options and had a Rodenstock listed below the Schneider. My eyes must have dropped to the next line and misread the Symmar as a Rodie, so that's what I typed in the post. Thank you for the correction.
I dream in black and white.
Toss a coin.
More seriously, buy on price and condition.
The Fujinon may be single-coated (it is single coated if there is lettering on the inside of the front barrel, rather than the outside). The APO Symmar is multi-coated. In many cases this won't matter (particularly if you use a lens hood) but on occasion a multi-coated lens may flare a bit a less or provide a smidge more contrast, particularly if there is a light source in or near the frame.
Can't go wrong with either one. I have a Rodenstock 135mm and a Fuji 180mm. I like them both.
Kent in SD
In contento ed allegria
Notte e di vogliam passar!
Assuming the lens elements are clear and clean in both, I'd go with the one that has the better shutter. I use a Fujinon 150/5.6 for my Horseman FA.Originally Posted by Mike in NY
Hi!
The nice thing about large format (LF) lenses manufactured by the Gang of Four (by alphabetical order: Fuji, Nikon, Schneider-Kreuznach, Rodenstock) is that there are very few bad lenses. Those lenses were designed and marketed as production tools for demanding professionals. They inherited of about one century of experience in lens design and manufacturing.
Now you can choose whichever brand you find suitable, affordable or desirable, as far as the lens is not damaged by fungus, lens-element separation, and providing that the shutter works fine.
Not all kinds of lenses can be found in all four catalogues, though.
For example, to the best of my knowledge, Fuji and Nikon never developed lenses to compete with ultra-wide short focal lenses like Schneider's Super Angulons XL 38, 47, 58 and Rodentock's Apo-Grandagons 35, 45 and 55.
Conversely, you won't find from the German manufacturers the equivalents of the modular long focal length Nikkor telephotos.
For the 150 mm, standard focal length of the 4x5" format, you have a lot of models, it is hard to give a recommendation except of course, that the most recent is the best.
What can be said regarding the series Symmar-S by Schneider-Kreuznach, is that they represent a significant improvement versus the previous series, the convertible Symmars. So you can safely go for a Symmar-S.
At a certain time in history, German authorities issued a so-called DIN standard DIN 19040, for us the relevant standard is
DIN 19040-5, Ausgabedatum: 1979-04
Begriffe der Photographie; Allgemeine optische Begriffe in der Photographie
Do not even try to find on the Internet a free copy of any document for DIN, ASA and ISO standards since they are available only if you pay for, and you are not allowed to disclose the contents publicly!
Moreover the now legendary (at least for aficionados of fine photographic lenses) standard DIN 19040 is outdated and no longer available ...
So when the DIN19040 appeared, apparently in 1979, sub-section DIN-19040-5 re-defined what "APO" meant for a photographic lens.
And the definition was probably not the original definition introduced at the end of the XIX-st century at the times of Ernst Abbe for apochromatic microscope lenses or apochromatic triplets.
Brief Summary: there is a very high probability that an early, post-1979 Apo-Symmar or Apo-Sironar are extremely close in their design and manufacturing process to a late pre-1979 Symmar-S or Sironar.
And needless to say that Japanese manufacturers soon labeled some of their lenses "APO".
There is no obligation for manufacturers to inform customers about all improvements in their lens designs and manufacturing processes.
You can of course find patent documents, but commercial names are never mentioned in patents, and you never know if a product is actually manufactured exactly as described in the patent.
The only documents allowing to track the change in lens designs for the same or a similar commercial lens name are FTM curves, but unfortunately they were not available or not published before 1970 for LF lenses. Moreover a change in anti-reflection coatings has absolutely no influence of FTM curves.
Actually, all this fuzziness is a real blessing for discussions on LF forums worldwide: if everything was know and publicly available, a lot of discussions would become irrelevant, this would not be fun
Majority of LF lenses were not "entry level". Keep in mind LF was primarily a image quality oriented medium back then, only folks serious about image quality were interested in this niche.
What has changes is the number of recent folks interested in LF film that has never done film before. They often bring their smaller format habits, marketing influences and all with them as they begin the LF learning curve and LF image making journey. They often discover LF is a very different experience than digital in many ways.
Essentially, any of the big four Nikkor, Rodenstock, Fujinon, Schneider are far more similar than different. Coatings are not going to make that much difference due to the smaller number of lens elements compared to lens specific to smaller film formats.
So, pick the lens that has the best working-reliable shutter and good condition glass. More important when starting out in LF is a shutter-lens that does what it must do and not produce grief as this will amplify potential grief and stunt the learning curve.
Bernice
Thank you all. By entry level, I was referring to cost (as opposed to, say, a much more expensive 150mm Sironar-S, for example). My other size lenses are in Copal 0 and 1 shutters, and I can either get either the Schneider or the Fujinon that I'm considering in a Copal, as the Fujinon is a later model not in the earlier Seiko shutter.
I dream in black and white.
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