I paid for a Zone VI 4x5 and received an 8x10!

[Mike in NY]

The title of this post gives away the story’s ending, but if you read it all, you’ll spot the progression of tell-tale signs that a larger camera than I expected loomed in my future.


Not too long ago I resolved to get a wood flatbed 4x5 to supplement my other LF cameras. I decided that a second-hand model would be fine, and I wasn’t going to be too picky about the make, so long as it was priced accordingly. I checked Craigslist and found a post for a barely used “Zone VI Classic 4x5 Camera” offered for a little less than they were selling for on eBay. That sparked my interest.

The listing included three close-up photos of the camera on a workbench, and the name plate showed that it was made by Zone VI (it wasn’t made for Zone VI by Wisner, nor was it assembled by Calumet after they acquired Zone VI). Two other close-ups taken from diagonal angles showed the camera with the bellows extended a little bit, but not much. I noticed a support loop on top of the bellows, which I thought was odd for a 4x5. But then I thought maybe Zone VI used them due to the bellow’s longer draw of 18 inches, and gave it no more thought. And in retrospect there weren’t any other reference objects in the photos to give some indication of the camera’s size. What the photos did show was a camera that didn’t have a mark on it, with nice wood grain and immaculate hardware.

The only problem is that the camera was located in another state. So I sent an email asking if the seller would be willing to sell it to me through eBay (for my protection) and ship it to me if I paid an additional amount to cover the auction fees and shipping costs. It turns out the seller had a 100% satisfaction rating on eBay but wasn’t accustomed to shipping large items (hence the reason for putting it on Craigslist), so we agreed to the deal and made the transaction.

The next day I received a note from the seller letting me know it had shipped, but that the shipping was quite a bit more than I expected for a 4x5 camera. With tongue in check, I thought to myself, “Maybe that gold plating on some Zone VI cameras weighs more than I realized.” As the next couple of days passed before receiving the camera, I began to wonder if the camera I bought was the 4x5 model with gold plated hardware, or was a regular brass model. I hoped mine was just brass, and wondered if I could figure it out by comparing the Craigslist pictures with photos of other Zone VI cameras on the web, to see if there were any difference other than the sheen of the hardware's finish.

So I did a web search, and noticed that none of the photos of any other Zone VI 4x5’s looked quite like the pictures of the one I just bought. For example, mine had two closure clasps on either side of the top of the rear standard, rather than a single clasp in the middle. One of the spirit levels was positioned on the lower half instead of the upper half of the side of the rear standard. The front standard’s lock-down knobs for adjusting the swing were bigger. None of the others had a bellows support loop like mine. And the front and rear focusing knobs were farther apart on mine, as if they were on a longer bed… Hey – wait a minute!

And that’s when it hit me…

Well pierce my ears and call me drafty, but the photos of the camera I bought were of an 8x10, not a 4x5 as described in the listing!

To confirm, I quickly looked up photos of Zone VI 8x10 models on the web, and sure enough, they were all identical to mine!

I’m glad I figured this out before the camera arrived; otherwise I would have been gobsmacked when I opened the box. Instead, I knew exactly what to expect when UPS delivered a rather large box a few days later, with a beauty of a barely used 8x10 inside of it.

So, what to do? I thought it was only fair to let the seller know what had occurred, but I ended up keeping the camera and volunteering to pay something extra. It’s not the camera I originally wanted, but of course it wasn’t a bad deal for what I got, either. If I decide to resell it, I’m sure I’ll be compensated for my expense, time and effort, with enough left over to get a better 4x5. Or maybe I’ll keep the camera and look for a Beseler 8x10 enlarger conversion kit.

Hhmm, I wonder if I can find one on Craigslist...

[Jim Noel]

YOu have done your duty. The camera is yours. enjoy it.

[Alan9940]

You already have 4x5 covered. Keep the 8x10 and craft beautiful contact prints from those deliciously large negatives!

Great story.

[Duolab123]

I found a fellow who had sold his Zone VI 8x10 camera but was left with some darkroom odds and ends. The local camera shop didn't have room. Long story short, the fellow basically said he had to get rid of everything. I said 200 bucks. When I got there he had, like 2 new Zone VI type 2 enlargers with the latest VC heads. One 5x7 and one 8x10. Carriers Metrolux II timer, on and on. I gave him a total of 300 dollars when he through in a like new 240mm Rodagon. I drove about 225 miles round trip. I have the 5x7 set up for 6x17, the 8x10 for my Deardorff. I've accumulated for 50 years. The key is, I suspect, is not really wanting it until you get home and realize what you have :-)

Of course if I would try to sell these, it would be the same story. Too far away from anyone that wants the stuff. That's OK, hopefully I will get a lot of good use.

Don't ever underestimate the joy of contact prints, I do more contact prints from the 8x10 than enlargements. Buy some Adox silver chloride paper, beautiful.

[robbiemcclaran]

The title of this post gives away the story’s ending, but if you read it all, you’ll spot the progression of tell-tale signs that a larger camera than I expected loomed in my future.


Not too long ago I resolved to get a wood flatbed 4x5 to supplement my other LF cameras. I decided that a second-hand model would be fine, and I wasn’t going to be too picky about the make, so long as it was priced accordingly. I checked Craigslist and found a post for a barely used “Zone VI Classic 4x5 Camera” offered for a little less than they were selling for on eBay. That sparked my interest.

The listing included three close-up photos of the camera on a workbench, and the name plate showed that it was made by Zone VI (it wasn’t made for Zone VI by Wisner, nor was it assembled by Calumet after they acquired Zone VI). Two other close-ups taken from diagonal angles showed the camera with the bellows extended a little bit, but not much. I noticed a support loop on top of the bellows, which I thought was odd for a 4x5. But then I thought maybe Zone VI used them due to the bellow’s longer draw of 18 inches, and gave it no more thought. And in retrospect there weren’t any other reference objects in the photos to give some indication of the camera’s size. What the photos did show was a camera that didn’t have a mark on it, with nice wood grain and immaculate hardware.

The only problem is that the camera was located in another state. So I sent an email asking if the seller would be willing to sell it to me through eBay (for my protection) and ship it to me if I paid an additional amount to cover the auction fees and shipping costs. It turns out the seller had a 100% satisfaction rating on eBay but wasn’t accustomed to shipping large items (hence the reason for putting it on Craigslist), so we agreed to the deal and made the transaction.

The next day I received a note from the seller letting me know it had shipped, but that the shipping was quite a bit more than I expected for a 4x5 camera. With tongue in check, I thought to myself, “Maybe that gold plating on some Zone VI cameras weighs more than I realized.” As the next couple of days passed before receiving the camera, I began to wonder if the camera I bought was the 4x5 model with gold plated hardware, or was a regular brass model. I hoped mine was just brass, and wondered if I could figure it out by comparing the Craigslist pictures with photos of other Zone VI cameras on the web, to see if there were any difference other than the sheen of the hardware's finish.

So I did a web search, and noticed that none of the photos of any other Zone VI 4x5’s looked quite like the pictures of the one I just bought. For example, mine had two closure clasps on either side of the top of the rear standard, rather than a single clasp in the middle. One of the spirit levels was positioned on the lower half instead of the upper half of the side of the rear standard. The front standard’s lock-down knobs for adjusting the swing were bigger. None of the others had a bellows support loop like mine. And the front and rear focusing knobs were farther apart on mine, as if they were on a longer bed… Hey – wait a minute!

And that’s when it hit me…

Well pierce my ears and call me drafty, but the photos of the camera I bought were of an 8x10, not a 4x5 as described in the listing!

To confirm, I quickly looked up photos of Zone VI 8x10 models on the web, and sure enough, they were all identical to mine!

I’m glad I figured this out before the camera arrived; otherwise I would have been gobsmacked when I opened the box. Instead, I knew exactly what to expect when UPS delivered a rather large box a few days later, with a beauty of a barely used 8x10 inside of it.

So, what to do? I thought it was only fair to let the seller know what had occurred, but I ended up keeping the camera and volunteering to pay something extra. It’s not the camera I originally wanted, but of course it wasn’t a bad deal for what I got, either. If I decide to resell it, I’m sure I’ll be compensated for my expense, time and effort, with enough left over to get a better 4x5. Or maybe I’ll keep the camera and look for a Beseler 8x10 enlarger conversion kit.

Hhmm, I wonder if I can find one on Craigslist...

Well if you do happen to decide to sell it I'd certainly be interested. I'm desperately wanting to upgrade my own 8x10.

[Eric Rose]

Good on you for contacting him and offering more money! It seems I read all to often how someone crows on and on about how they let some person sell something way below current market price. I salute you.

[jnantz]

Sounds like fun !
.. and it also sounds like when I bought a Bolex H8 and my friend in Washington State sent me a splendiferous Bolex H16 with 3 bootyful lenses.
i called him and told him, he said it was nothing to worry about.

[Alan Gales]

YOu have done your duty. The camera is yours. enjoy it.

Exactly!

I was on eBay a few years ago and saw an auction for a Pentax 645n camera. Looking at one of the pictures I noticed it was a 645nll. Well someone bid what the seller was asking and I bid above it. I ended up getting it for $600 which was on the high end for 645n's at the time. It was in mint- condition so it was worth the $600. The 645Nll's were selling for $1200. If I hadn't of bid on it then the other buyer would have gotten it for slightly less, so I didn't feel bad about it.

[robbiemcclaran]

Good on you for contacting him and offering more money! It seems I read all to often how someone crows on and on about how they let some person sell something way below current market price. I salute you.

Agreed. On one level it's a sellers responsibility to understand what it is they are selling and the value of the item. That said, there are certainly times when the ethical thing to do is notify a naive seller they are undervaluing their item and offer a fair price. It's up to a buyer to know when and how to make that distinction.

[William Whitaker]

I should ask you to shop for an 8x10 for me. Maybe you'll reel in an 11x14!