Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

[rdeloe]

I've had to buy goods for work-related purposes. My accounting people want to see something that resembles an invoice. Someone who sells using PayPal can send me an invoice that itemizes the item that is for sale. You can do that other ways too, but it's just easier all around.

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but over 100s of transactions as a buyer and seller I have not had any problems using PayPal. The only thing remotely approaching a "problem" is the time a seller owed me a refund and used some kind of weird e-cheque through PayPal. It just took 7-10 days to clear. I also don't love that PayPal can take money from my account with 0 delay, but putting money back in my account takes a couple days...

[Leszek Vogt]

I've had excellent results as a buyer and as a seller. As limited as that might be. I'll take pics to reveal what the item/s look like. Sometimes I have a question or two for the buyer. Only once there was this dude who denied what his pic showed (years ago)....some bs within the lens....and I decided to skip the sale altogether.

Normally, I'll instruct the other party that my payment may take longer than snap of fingers, since it goes via my cr union acct. I had no idea that would be the case, but over the years the transactions are way faster.

Oren is right, I keep basically the amount that's required for the purchase + fee on my account....and I have a firewall, where Paypal is not able to (willy nilly) pull out whatever they wish. Yes, it's for my protection too. It's been like this from day one (10yrs ago ?).

Les

[pepeguitarra]

Agree. You have to have a separate account for your Internet transactions. It can be hacked, and you only lose the small amount you have. I had one dedicated since the beginning.

[andrewch59]

I wont buy/sell online if it is not a paypal transaction, lots of protection both ways, I have always found disputes fairly straightforward, but on feebay I always check feedback percentage and comments, there are scammers. When I have sold I have always gone the extra mile and used insurance where necessary and ALWAYS use the tracking and signature required service. You then have a record it has arrived in one piece and delivered. As already stated always take photos and record serial numbers.

[goamules]

I think there are two different businesses and issues being talked about: Paypal and Ebay. 45 posts and nobody has discussed that a seller can have a Paypal account without the problem of getting forced to give a refund. Ebay does that, not Paypal. Yes, when working together, that's how they operate.

But if you buy a lens from someone right now, on the forum, and pay with Paypal, how are you going to get your money refunded? I don't send an PP invoice or anything when I sell. I talk to the person here, on the phone, or wherever. We agree to the transaction, I give them my PP address, and they "send the money". Done. How would Paypal know what I advertised, what was sold, the condition, or how I shipped? I've just never heard of someone trying to pull the "it's not as advertised" EXCEPT through Ebay. So the better questions is "Should I sell on Ebay", where, by the way, you are REQUIRED to offer Paypal. Short answer: no, not if you can help it. Because THAT is when all the scams start.

[Tin Can]

Good advice!

[pepeguitarra]

Ebay owns Paypal, so pretty much they force the Paypal on you. Now, if you do transactions out of Ebay (like I do), you have to declare if this is money you are sending to relatives of friends in the USA (for free), or if this is for the sale of goods. If this is for the sale of goods, you have to pay the fees. I have over 1,500 transactions on Ebay, and most of them are through Paypal, except the first ones, when there was no PayPal and I only accepted checks. I purchased tickets for an event from someone. I never got the tickets, so I contacted Paypal and told them that I never got the tickets. They put a claim and contacted the other party, who acknowledged that the tickets were not sent for some reason. Paypal then reimbursed my money a month later. The important thing about Paypal is that after certain amount of selling (is that $20k?), you will receive a tax form and you will have to declare that as an income. Of course, if you are doing business, you can deduct your expenses.

[Corran]

Ebay owns Paypal,

Nope, not since 2015.

In looking up the exact date, I discovered that eBay and PayPal's current agreement ends in 2020, at which time other payment options may begin to be accepted on eBay. Interesting.

John doesn't mention where he is selling. I wonder where he is posting? I have recently sold a variety of things through the FB film groups but those bring a host of other problems.

[Michael Graves]

First let me say, I use PayPal for both buying and selling. I prefer it for buying because of the protection. I prefer it for selling because it creates a nice audit trail of the entire transaction. However, I would never dream of "demanding" someone buy or sell via PayPal. That's their decision. And yes, there are some downsides. I sold an 8x10 camera about 18 months ago on eBay. Even though I specifically stated no International sales, due to the size of the camera, a guy from Brazil bought it. Ebay forced me to follow through, so I did. Three months later, he demanded a return and PayPal forced that issue AND made me pay return shipping. The camera came back trashed. In fact, I'm not sure that it was even the same camera. But that's an isolated case. I've found the people on this forum to be mostly honorable. I've had a couple of sellers make legitimate mistakes -- but then again so have I. Just recently, I sent somebody the wrong lens by accident and what he got wasn't worth the landfill. I made it good. And so did the sellers I dealt with here.

On the plus side, if you are the buyer and somebody really puts the screws to you, you have something to fall back on. As a seller, the 3% fee is only a couple of tenths of a percent over what you make the restaurant pay when you charge your dinner. It's part of the cost of business, even if it is a hobby and not a business.

Paypal puts the seller at a disadvantage because the buyer can claim damaged goods, but at least has to return it. Sending a MO puts the buyer at a disadvantage because the seller can just pocket the money.

And, by the way, even USPS MOs can be forged. Mail fraud? Yes, but I suspect they have bigger fish to fry.

If a non-local seller insists on a MO today, I move on unless I'm desperate.

[goamules]

Ebay is a different topic. They give huge risks for sellers today, compared to 5 or 10 years ago. It would take another thread and analysis, but the Internet chatter on most hobby/collecting forums is to buy something on Ebay, get it, inspect it, maybe disassemble it, and if ANYTHING is wrong, send it back "on the seller's dime" for a full refund. Try before you buy (but they already bought and you have to ship)

It used to be 1 lens buyer a year would pull that one me, and I sold hundreds a year. Last year, I sold 3-4 on Ebay. And 3 tried to "game" the system, buying from countries I disabled with tricks (china), disassembling lenses sold "for parts - not guaranteed" and finding worn internal items, demanding partial refunds or full refunds. One guy I wrote the whole story about on this forum....look it up. It's a nightmare selling vintage on Ebay now, in the Global Economy with different ethics and cultures. You WILL get scammed by unreasonable buyers. Or you can list the item as "for parts" and "no refunds" and buyers will just look for the other similar items for sale....and scam those.