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Thread: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

  1. #21

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Paypal puts the seller at a disadvantage because the buyer can claim damaged goods, but at least has to return it. Sending a MO puts the buyer at a disadvantage because the seller can just pocket the money.

    And, by the way, even USPS MOs can be forged. Mail fraud? Yes, but I suspect they have bigger fish to fry.

    If a non-local seller insists on a MO today, I move on unless I'm desperate.

  2. #22

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    As rorye's example shows, it doesn't function effectively as a buffer - the terms to which you sign up enable PayPal to extract money from your linked bank account in connection with disputed transactions as they decide, not as you decide. AFAIK if you want a buffer you need to create a dedicated bank account for PayPal transactions, move only as much money into the account as needed to keep it open and to fulfill any purchase transactions, and transfer incoming funds beyond the required minimum to another account ASAP.
    Or cancel the account and forgo the ability to transfer in or out of a bank account. If you have excess funds, have paypal send you a check. It costs a couple of buck and takes longer than it should, but it limits your exposure.

  3. #23

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by HMG View Post
    Or cancel the account and forgo the ability to transfer in or out of a bank account.
    This won't work. Well, maybe it will work in the short term, but it's unlikely to work in the long term.

    <puts on paralegal hat>

    That's because you must provide bank account info to PayPal in order to open an account with them. And in the account terms, you contractually agree to allow PayPal to access that account and/or to otherwise reimburse itself for any funds they deem you owe them for whatever reason(s).

    So even if there are insufficient funds in your bank account for them to recover the amount they claim is due to them or the account has been emptied and closed, your contractural obligation to them remains and they can take you to court to recover those funds, plus their legal fees and court costs, via a judgment and enforcing collection of it.

    Now, whether they will actually do so is another matter, but they certainly can ding your credit report if they don't and this might impair your ability to open new bank accounts because financial institutions generally take a dim view of anyone who stiffs another financial instiution.

    <takes off paralegal hat>

  4. #24

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Layton View Post
    Should I "bite the PayPal bullet?"
    Many won't buy if paypal not possible.

    From the customers' point of view PayPal is important because it may allow to block the payment to the seller if there is there something wrong in the process (until the issue is clarified) so people not having a nice CRM won't offer Paypal.

    Imagine that product arrives damaged because of incorrect packaging, or not working of with wrong specs... then paypal is a safety belt for customer...

  5. #25
    adelorenzo's Avatar
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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    I've had a Paypal account for 15 years and never had a single issue over hundreds if not thousands of transactions. It's massively useful for both buying and selling and in my case I also use them for shipping. I use it constantly and much prefer it for online shopping over a credit card. I think they offer a good value for the service they provide and I like having the buyer/seller protection in place although I've never had to use it.

    YMMV of course.

  6. #26

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    I've only had one bad experience as a seller using paypal...out of maybe 30 or 40 sales.

    I sold my black Contax G2 & Planar 45mm f/2 to someone, who then claimed all his images were out of focus and then forced a returned of the camera 4 months later. I'm currently finishing a test roll through it to see if its true. It certainly worked last summer. I'm convinced that he either doesn't know how to focus a Contax G2 at all or he just bought the camera to use for his trip to Europe and then returned it...basically making it a free rental.

    The main problem I have is the *amount of time* available to buyers to start a complaint about a purchase. Four months is a long, dubious amount of time.

  7. #27

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    This won't work. Well, maybe it will work in the short term, but it's unlikely to work in the long term.

    <puts on paralegal hat>

    That's because you must provide bank account info to PayPal in order to open an account with them. And in the account terms, you contractually agree to allow PayPal to access that account and/or to otherwise reimburse itself for any funds they deem you owe them for whatever reason(s).

    So even if there are insufficient funds in your bank account for them to recover the amount they claim is due to them or the account has been emptied and closed, your contractural obligation to them remains and they can take you to court to recover those funds, plus their legal fees and court costs, via a judgment and enforcing collection of it.

    Now, whether they will actually do so is another matter, but they certainly can ding your credit report if they don't and this might impair your ability to open new bank accounts because financial institutions generally take a dim view of anyone who stiffs another financial instiution.

    <takes off paralegal hat>
    I think you're right. But you have a better chance of resolving the dispute with Paypal before they have your money than after.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Audii-Dudii View Post
    This won't work. Well, maybe it will work in the short term, but it's unlikely to work in the long term.

    <puts on paralegal hat>

    That's because you must provide bank account info to PayPal in order to open an account with them. And in the account terms, you contractually agree to allow PayPal to access that account and/or to otherwise reimburse itself for any funds they deem you owe them for whatever reason(s).

    So even if there are insufficient funds in your bank account for them to recover the amount they claim is due to them or the account has been emptied and closed, your contractural obligation to them remains and they can take you to court to recover those funds, plus their legal fees and court costs, via a judgment and enforcing collection of it.

    Now, whether they will actually do so is another matter, but they certainly can ding your credit report if they don't and this might impair your ability to open new bank accounts because financial institutions generally take a dim view of anyone who stiffs another financial instiution.

    <takes off paralegal hat>
    BIG caveat: IANAL nor a PL. This is not legal advice!

    In principle, if they try to take you to court, you have an opportunity to contest their claim, as opposed to their being able to extract funds directly, without warning or opportunity to object. If the claim on you is fraudulent, you might have not only a defense, but a basis to seek a judgment against them for abetting a fraudulent claim. But compiling legally-compelling evidence for that may be a challenge, and more generally, if you have to slug it out in court, then in terms of the cost and hassle and risks associated with such a course, you've effectively already lost. By far the safest course is to avoid getting into that pickle in the first place. For some sellers, that will mean avoiding PayPal.

  9. #29

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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAubrey View Post
    I sold my black Contax G2 & Planar 45mm f/2 to someone, who then claimed all his images were out of focus and then forced a returned of the camera 4 months later. I'm currently finishing a test roll through it to see if its true. It certainly worked last summer. I'm convinced that he either doesn't know how to focus a Contax G2 at all or he just bought the camera to use for his trip to Europe and then returned it...basically making it a free rental.
    The first of my two situations was similar. I sold someone a vintage Minolta lens and two months after he received it, he filed a dispute with PayPal claiming it didn't work properly and wasn't in the condition I had claimed. I didn't recognize the lens in the photos he provided to PayPal showing its condition -- it was indeed quite scruffy, as he claimed, whereas the lens I had shipped to him was in mint-minus condition -- but PayPal sided with him regardless and after I received the lens back, it turned out to have a different serial number than the one I sold him! (I kept records for insurance purposes, so had a record of the serial numbers for each of my lenses.)

    I contacted PayPal about this and they contacted the seller, but he claimed the lens he returned to me was absolutely the same lens I had shipped to him and if there was any fraud involved in the transaction, it must be on my end, not his, as I obviously must have shipped him a different lens that I had advertised!

    The second incident involved a Minolta XK body and having learned my lesson with the lens debacle, I took a photo of it in the shipping box with the serial number showing. Well, to make a long story short, the same thing happened again and when I sent PayPal the photo of the camera in the box, they still found for the seller, because my photo of the camera in the box wasn't considered to be irrefutable proof that it was the same camera I had actually shipped ... wtf?!

    Now, for higher-value items, I leave the box open until I'm at the Post Office and then make a video of the box being sealed and passed to the clerk behind the counter. I haven't had any disputes since I started doing this, so I don't know if PayPal will accept these videos as proof of not, but if not, then I have no idea what evidence will ever satisfy them.

    <sigh>

  10. #30
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Should I Bite the PayPal Bullet?

    Quote Originally Posted by HMG View Post
    And, by the way, even USPS MOs can be forged.
    Yes, they can be.

    Just take it to any Post Office to have it verified, then deposit in your bank account.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

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