3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

[Paul Ron]

oh yes, scratching... ive got a good method for getting exactly the right amount on each sheet. The hardest part is distributing them perfectly random otherwise everyone will know my equipment is faulty.

[HMG]

oh yes, scratching... ive got a good method for getting exactly the right amount on each sheet. The hardest part is distributing them perfectly random otherwise everyone will know my equipment is faulty.

Please share your methodology. I seem to get scratches only on the negatives I want to print.

On a more serious note, I know there have been complaints about sheets becoming loose with the Mod54 insert. Whether from product design or improper use, I don't know. But I have seen multiple comments.

The 3 reel tank taco-style version would seem to eliminate that issue. But, for me, the 4 sheet 2-reel "star" version makes more sense. If for no other reason than it uses almost 1/2 the amount of developer. But I haven't seen/heard any reports of it's use. And I don't have a 4x5 camera with me this winter with which to test (though I do have some processed negatives to play with).

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Please share your methodology. I seem to get scratches only on the negatives I want to print.

I have got a problem of understanding exactly the purpose of the 3d-printed solution: why don't you twist a rubber strap around one of each tacos and let the insert outside the tank? http://static.flickr.com/110/257236162_352bed18af.jpg and https://petapixel.com/2013/05/13/how...art-to-finish/

[minh0204]

I have got a problem of understanding exactly the purpose of the 3d-printed solution: why don't you twist a rubber strap around one of each tacos and let the insert outside the tank?

I can see at least 3:
- Less developer required.
- Repeatable result. Sliding a hair band down some film neither secure nor repeatable.
- Doesn't look ghetto.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Less developer: Rodinal 1+100 requires 6ml/135 or 6ml/120 or 2ml/4x5 film. To develop 5 4x5 sheets of Fomapan 100 in Rodinal 1+100, you will need 10ml Rodinal and 1000ml water. Can you fill 1010ml liquid into the daylight tank with this insert? - Also excluded XTOL 1+3, HC110-H, Neofin Blau ...

Repeatable result: of course you always will have your scratches at the same place. I am sure - given the smaller amount of higher concentrated developer - you will have always the same fluid flows causing uneven processing at the same places, too. - Whereas I can't see why there should be a problem putting a loose rubber strap over a taco sheet (Mexicans don't even need rubber straps to prepare their tacos). You have got fingers with a given length, so you will have repeatable sliding results with rubber straps. The rubber strap will land where your fingers end. - Is there air between the closed wands of the film compartments? Do you have to preheat these volumina when processing colour film?

Ghetto: the rubber strap doesn't look ghetto. It's like sailing instead of motor yachting: little effort great results. Do you think A.Adams' development trays look ghetto?

[Nebin]

Right now I use a 2 reel tank to process two sheets facing inward. I have to use 750 mL of developer to do this. With the insert I could process 4 sheets with a fraction of the developer. So yes I will be printing the insert this week.

Also I have seen threads online that complain of marks left on the film where the bands were during processing.

[minh0204]

Less developer: Rodinal 1+100 requires 6ml/135 or 6ml/120 or 2ml/4x5 film. To develop 5 4x5 sheets of Fomapan 100 in Rodinal 1+100, you will need 10ml Rodinal and 1000ml water. Can you fill 1010ml liquid into the daylight tank with this insert? - Also excluded XTOL 1+3, HC110-H, Neofin Blau ...

Repeatable result: of course you always will have your scratches at the same place. I am sure - given the smaller amount of higher concentrated developer - you will have always the same fluid flows causing uneven processing at the same places, too. - Whereas I can't see why there should be a problem putting a loose rubber strap over a taco sheet (Mexicans don't even need rubber straps to prepare their tacos). You have got fingers with a given length, so you will have repeatable sliding results with rubber straps. The rubber strap will land where your fingers end. - Is there air between the closed wands of the film compartments? Do you have to preheat these volumina when processing colour film?

Ghetto: the rubber strap doesn't look ghetto. It's like sailing instead of motor yachting: little effort great results. Do you think A.Adams' development trays look ghetto?

Did you actually get great results with the taco method? I couldn't. Yes you can dev with coffee and vitamin C for pennies, but how about colour?

AA would think rubber band's ghetto too. That's why he used trays and not rubber bands, no?

Do whatever makes you happy and let people do whatever makes them happy. Life's too short.

[Paul Ron]

tacos were ok but it did leave a mark on the film. it also uses an enormous amout of chemicals. i also have a daylight tank that can hold 12 sheets but it takes a quart of chemicals.

so i switched to trays, chineese take out containers. from 4 oz of chemical i can process 4 sheets. but it takes me an hour to do 4 sheets in the dark. but, with the insert, i can do 4 sheets in 18 min and i will be able to process a couple more batches in that hour... and best of all, with the lights on!

why not give this gizmo a try? it has more advantages over conventional methods. im sure ansel would approve it.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Did you actually get great results with the taco method? I couldn't. Yes you can dev with coffee and vitamin C for pennies, but how about colour?

AA would think rubber band's ghetto too. That's why he used trays and not rubber bands, no?

Do whatever makes you happy and let people do whatever makes them happy. Life's too short.

I use a very old Jobo tank, 2l, 2 spiral inserts for 12 sheets 4x5. Yesterday I aquired 24 film hangers with 5 Kodak rubber tanks. I will use them, too.

I don't think that instant coffee would be a good developer. Quality may vary. And it's too expensive, a lot more expensive than XTOL, Rodinal or HC110. I did the calculation when I wanted to develop ca. 500 135 films. Whereas Vitamin C can be quite high quality.

I didn't say that the taco method would be better. I asked why you don't twist a rubber strap around the taco. That doesn't mean that I twist a rubber strap around a taco. After some reflection I even changed my mind: in fact it's a downright idiotic idea, IMHO. Just imagine the flatness of such a negative in my negative holder ... And there are layers on the back of the film - so personally I don't think that a rubber band would be any good. Although the guy on Flickr said it worked great.

I just posed the question. It seemed more secure to me to twist a loose rubber than inserting the full lenght of a quite sensible sheet film into a 3d printed DIY hole. That's a question of relativity, not of abolutism.

Then there was a quite arrogant answer - that the rubber solution would be "ghetto". I mean: what's this? We stay in a darkroom. Nobody observes you while you fiddle your tacos into 3d holes or a rubber band. There is no dev tank beauty contest, there is no jury and I will definitely not walk on the street telling everybody what a smart solution I have found to develop five 4x5 sheets. BTW I devoloped the 500 135 films that I mentioned above with Paterson reels on cable conduits in 5l sewer pipes, 3x12 films. This was ghetto but the films came out fine. Great, I can recommend it.

Whereas the questions about minimum volumina, especially Rodinal 1+100, and repeatable results are unanswered. My experience (47 years) showed me that unresponding such questions addresses real problems with the item.

Of course you're right: C41 or E6 doesn't need great volumina, but I asked whether you will have to preheat the solid or hollow insert, and this question stays unresponded, too. Color processing is very sensible, as we all know. BTW. Is the 3d plastic chemically resistant or degradable like the Proxima Centauri camera?

This question shows that there are several reasons why Paterson (I love Paterson) and Jobo (I hate Jobo) reels and tanks are made of good plastic and why they don't touch the middle of the sheet / film and why there are not so huge volumina of the item itself and why they get 12 sheet film into a 2l tank in which you can develop 12 Ilford FP4+ sheets in HC110H or 12 Rollei Ortho 25 sheets in Rodinal 1+100, whitout scratches, with repeatables results, etc.

If anybody feels offended: this was definitely not my intention. I answered in the sarcastic style others developed in this thread. Somebody mentioned the "ghetto", what is really a strange category - I am old enough to know what to think of this suggestive fanboy jargon: in the end it's much ado about nothing.

[Morten]

As opposed to just the right amount of scratching?

Yes, quite right
Given that this method and the taco metod, curls the film emulsion side in, any scratches in the emulsion are most likely from manhandling the film sheets and not so much due to the equipment or the basic method of development.