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Thread: 3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

  1. #41

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    122

    Re: 3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

    Progress! why don't we all process sheet film in trays? Or deep tanks? Etc.. personally I don't like either the mod54 and similar Jobo reel, nor the taco rubber band methods. Your mileage and preferences might be different. However I'm happy and has a few hundred sheets through the Jobo 3010 expert drum method, (twin sheet barrel shaped cylinders constant agitation) thus this 3d printing experiment. Uneven development is a potential showstopper, so far it looks good i.e quite even, but yet to few development cycles to be definitive.
    For info, The paterson 3 reel tank with insert can holde more than 1,1 liter of fluids. I'm Considering a version with more thight fit in the tank to allow for constant agitation i.e. rollers and thus much less developer in the the tank. However minimum amounts for complete development needs to be observed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Casper Lohenstein View Post
    I have got a problem of understanding exactly the purpose of the 3d-printed solution: why don't you twist a rubber strap around one of each tacos and let the insert outside the tank? http://static.flickr.com/110/257236162_352bed18af.jpg and https://petapixel.com/2013/05/13/how...art-to-finish/
    Last edited by Morten; 8-Mar-2019 at 03:53. Reason: Clarity

  2. #42

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    10

    Re: 3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

    I wanted to drop a note to say that I did print the insert for the 2 reel tank and have had time to use it. I experienced several issues and will not use it anymore.

    1. The film edges that are apposed to each other don't stay, and the outer edge usually moves outward between the insert and the sidewall of the tank. You can see this happening to all the sheets in this photo. This results in a lot of scratches as the film slides in and out:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1693.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	112.7 KB 
ID:	188928

    (Nevermind that there are two films in the same slot in the photo. Apparently I double loaded the same slot in the darkroom. Operator error on that one.)

    2. The side that touches the insert develops differently than the side that touches the tank wall. You can see large areas of difference that correspond to these to different sides of contact even though the emulsion side faces inward.

    3. One of the frames had some sort of reaction with the insert plastic where it was touching it. I can only described the result as what looked like someone taking a Sharpie to the non-emulsion side and coloring on it permanently. Washing and fixing could not remove it.

    4. The volume savings were the only thing that would have been nice. I went from using 750 mL for two 4x5 sheets to using 700 mL to process four. But in the end if only one frame or less turns out then I am actually wasting even more developer.

    I cannot continue using the 2 reel insert as is. I am back to loading two sheets against the tank walls for now.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    122

    Re: 3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

    Thank you for sharing your experience! Particularly as it not was to your satisfaction! Will use your feedback to learn and see how I might improve the design.

    Your issues:
    1. I'm painfully aware of this and will improve on the profile to provide less opportunity for the film to slip away.
    2. Very strange! What developer and agitation scheme did you use? Any one with similar experience?
    3. What material and brand was used for the 3d filament?
    4. Ok, how big of an issue is this for b&w one-shot developer? Color definitely, but may be re used.



    Quote Originally Posted by Nebin View Post
    I wanted to drop a note to say that I did print the insert for the 2 reel tank and have had time to use it. I experienced several issues and will not use it anymore.

    1. The film edges that are apposed to each other don't stay, and the outer edge usually moves outward between the insert and the sidewall of the tank. You can see this happening to all the sheets in this photo. This results in a lot of scratches as the film slides in and out:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1693.jpg 
Views:	54 
Size:	112.7 KB 
ID:	188928

    (Nevermind that there are two films in the same slot in the photo. Apparently I double loaded the same slot in the darkroom. Operator error on that one.)

    2. The side that touches the insert develops differently than the side that touches the tank wall. You can see large areas of difference that correspond to these to different sides of contact even though the emulsion side faces inward.

    3. One of the frames had some sort of reaction with the insert plastic where it was touching it. I can only described the result as what looked like someone taking a Sharpie to the non-emulsion side and coloring on it permanently. Washing and fixing could not remove it.

    4. The volume savings were the only thing that would have been nice. I went from using 750 mL for two 4x5 sheets to using 700 mL to process four. But in the end if only one frame or less turns out then I am actually wasting even more developer.

    I cannot continue using the 2 reel insert as is. I am back to loading two sheets against the tank walls for now.

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    10

    Re: 3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morten View Post
    Thank you for sharing your experience! Particularly as it not was to your satisfaction! Will use your feedback to learn and see how I might improve the design.

    Your issues:
    1. I'm painfully aware of this and will improve on the profile to provide less opportunity for the film to slip away.
    2. Very strange! What developer and agitation scheme did you use? Any one with similar experience?
    3. What material and brand was used for the 3d filament?
    4. Ok, how big of an issue is this for b&w one-shot developer? Color definitely, but may be re used.
    If you knew of #1 it would have been nice to disclose it. I know it's a prototype, but I probably wouldn't have printed it in the first place. The developer was 1:1 D-76. Agitation for the first minute and then agitated on each minute thereafter. The material was standard PLA (FDM). The brand I don't know as I didn't provide the material.

    And regarding #4... if it didn't matter I wouldn't have tried. I would be spending half as much on developer and ordering it half as often, not to mention spending half the time standing at the sink. $ is $. Otherwise I would have just ordered the SP-445, which is what I'll likely do now.

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    122

    Re: 3d printed 4x5 and 5x7 inserts for Paterson daylight tanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebin View Post
    If you knew of #1 it would have been nice to disclose it. I know it's a prototype, but I probably wouldn't have printed it in the first place. The developer was 1:1 D-76. Agitation for the first minute and then agitated on each minute thereafter. The material was standard PLA (FDM). The brand I don't know as I didn't provide the material.

    And regarding #4... if it didn't matter I wouldn't have tried. I would be spending half as much on developer and ordering it half as often, not to mention spending half the time standing at the sink. $ is $. Otherwise I would have just ordered the SP-445, which is what I'll likely do now.
    Thank you, due warning added on Thingiverse, regarding the 2reel tank and the potential problem. Given the relatively high cost and time spent on getting to the point where I have negatives to develop, for me the small amount of extra developer and time is totally worth it. YMMV.

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