Advice required for selenium toning Ilford Warmtone

[DannyTreacy]

I haven’t used selenium toner before, I’ve done some research into ratios and times etc. I know that a bit of testing is required but as I know the paper I’ll be toning (Ilford Warmtone FB), I wanted to ask those with experience of this combination:

Is it possible to use this toner to both
- give archival permanence
- increase D Max
- slightly cool the paper’s tone

All in one go?

Thanks!

[Keith Pitman]

Look for Fred Newman’s video on Youtube about toning. Yes, you need to test. If you tone too much, you will reduce maximum black.

[Ulophot]

Hi, Danny, I've done a fair amount of testing recently. In brief:

VC papers, including Warmtone, have a tendency to split-tone, due to the two emulsions used. The higher values do not tone as fully as the lower ones, and at dilutions ranging from around 1:6 to 1:14, the lower values can color distinctly while the upper tones show little to none. Down around 1:2 to 1:4, toning tends to be more even, but also faster, of course, and fuller, to a distinct brown. Not sure what would happen at lower temps, e.g., 60-65 degrees F.

I have ended up settling, for now, at 1:19 unless I really want that brown color. 6-7 minutes or more at 70-75 degrees F deepens the low values and gives a color that is about as close as I have gotten to what I'd really like. (Ken Lee, for example, produces wonderful color, but he does so digitally.) A single-grade paper would tone evenly, but I like Warmtone and VC printing.

A number of posts I have found, say that the archival preservation varies, effectively, with the tone, i.e., my high values will not be as archival as my low ones. I'm sure they will outlast me, meanwhile, and perhaps, in the interim, we'll get more new papers in a range of grades and surfaces that could break me from Warmtone.

[Oren Grad]

The Ilford Warmtone papers, both RC and FB, respond strongly to selenium toning. It's not hard to get a very strong color change and also start losing DMax. I don't care for that myself. To just get a bit more authority in the dark tones, I'll tone RC Warmtone in KRST 1+19 for 2 minutes, or FB Warmtone in KRST 1+9 for 2 minutes. With both papers, once they start picking up obvious color, major changes in image color and character can occur very quickly. So this is one combination that you will need to tune carefully under your own darkroom conditions and working habits.

As for "archival permanence", fully protecting the image silver requires toning to completion. With selenium, that generally results in prints that, to my taste, look quite harsh and ugly. Light toning simply to enhance DMax will provide some protection for the image silver, but it's not appropriate to say that it makes prints "archivally permanent".

[Joe O'Hara]

Agree fully with the comments of Ulophot and Oren. I like how MG Warmtone looks when selenium toned.
It seems to change it more than it does the regular MG Classic.

Using MG Warmtone FB, I develop in a D-72 type developer that uses benzotriazole and no bromide at
1:1. Before toning, the print is only very slightly warm. 2-3 minutes in KRST 1:20 gives a very pleasing slightly
purplish cool tone especially in the lower values. BTW, being impatient, I warm the toner up to 76 deg. F
or so before toning to speed things up. Most of the color change seems to happen in the first 30
seconds or so, especially if I've recently replenished the toner solution.

I wouldn't say that the prints have a distinct dual-tone look, but I like the end result very much.

I rely on two-bath fixing in TF-3 and thorough washing (1 hour in a Kostiner tank) for archival permanence.
Anything the selenium does for me is just a bonus.

[Oren Grad]

For clarity, a further observation about permanence and the role of toning: proper fixing and washing prevents the silver image from deteriorating simply from exposure to light, while toning (conversion of the image silver to a more inherently stable compound) protects the silver image from attack by atmospheric contaminants that react with it even after it has been properly fixed and washed. These are two different processes that protect the image from two different forms of deterioration. Unfortunately, toning imposes a burden of time, hassle and cost, and changes the character of the silver image in ways that are sometimes pleasing, sometimes not. Each of us has to decide which tradeoffs we want to make between extent of image stability, workflow burden, and how we want our prints to look.

[Michael Wesik]

I haven’t used selenium toner before, I’ve done some research into ratios and times etc. I know that a bit of testing is required but as I know the paper I’ll be toning (Ilford Warmtone FB), I wanted to ask those with experience of this combination:

Is it possible to use this toner to both
- give archival permanence
- increase D Max
- slightly cool the paper’s tone

All in one go?

Thanks!

One quick comment: your developing time will augment colour. Shorter=warmer vs longer=cooler. If you're looking to cool down the image I would use a developing time 5+ minutes. I've used a developing time upwards of 25 mins without fogging. Then, you can choose a toning dilution and time that fits your preference.

[Doremus Scudder]

Do a quick search on my name here and over at Photrio more details about replenishing and reusing selenium toner, my workflow and other toning tips if you're interested. Here's a short version.

For toning a new paper, start with a weak dilution and work to stronger if you need. Toning times under 3-4 minutes can lead to unevenness, so try to aim for that or longer.

As mentioned above, many modern VC papers tend to split tone. This is somewhat dependent on the contrast setting you use; some papers tone very differently at grade 5 than grade 00, and tend to be a mix in the middle, sometimes with shadows toning much differently than the highlights. I don't like this very much and tend to tone lightly with papers that do this.

Furthermore, every image will tone a bit differently depending on the distribution of tones. I think it is defeating the purpose of toning to simply tone for a given time at a given dilution, e.g., "I tone everything for three minutes at 1+19" or whatever. Every print you run through a toning solution (especially a weak one) diminishes its activity a bit. Look at your print while toning. Keep an untoned print handy for comparison. Use lighting that you would consider good for print display. Watch carefully and pull the print just before it reaches the amount of toning you like; toning continues for a short time in rinse/hypo clear. When toning times become too long, add a bit of concentrate to the working solution. You can filter and reuse the working solution indefinitely (I have 10-year-old batches that still work fine).

FWIW, here's my workflow:

I wash and dry my prints after fix 1. so I start with

~ Soak, 5 minutes
~ Fix 2, using an alkaline or neutral fixer (I use Ilford Rapid Fixer 1+9 for 1.5-2 minutes mostly)
~ Selenium toner (yes, I transfer directly to the toning bath from the second fix. If the prints are fixed well, no staining occurs with a neutral-to-alkaline fixer). I tone visually till the desired tone is reached. I like toning times in the 3-6 minute range
~ Wash aid (no intermediate rinse diminishes the capacity of the wash aid, but it's worth it for me)
~ Final wash (I like 60 minutes for FB paper)

Keep in mind that if you don't see change in the print, i.e., increase in D-max and/or change in image tone, you're not toning... Some just stick prints in the toner by rote thinking that they are getting some benefit (more permanence, etc.).

With a new paper, you'll need to experiment with dilutions and times to find what you like. You'll need to ruin a print or two by toning them too much in order to find the sweet spot for you, so don't begin with your masterpieces

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Drew Wiley]

Selenium tends to warm MGWT even further. But this depends on the specific developer and degree of development. And you'd have to tone rather deeply to get significant archival improvement; or at least, that seems to be the latest finding, which differs from older literature. I wouldn't worry about it. Tone for sake of esthetic look, and protect the life of the print by common sense methods. It's a nice paper for split toning, like GP1 gold toner for blue-blacking the shadows; but it won't ever give you a consistent cold tone image. You need a neutral of cool-tone paper for that, like Multigrade Cooltone in amidol. I use selenium 1:20 one-shot, and rather briefly. Some of these modern premium papers tone quite quickly. No wash aid, because I use TF4 archival fixer.

[John Layton]

...not sure about increasing archival permanence - but if you want to cool off MGWT a bit and get great dmax in the deal - try Moersch SE-6 developer with this paper. You might just be amazed!