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Thread: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

  1. #1
    RobertJSherman's Avatar
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    Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    I've been looking for an answer to this one for a while - when preparing glass plates and applying a gelatin sizing it is said to use chromealum - the challenge is the ratio is almost never mentioned. My copy of the Alterntive Process text doesn't seem to specify the dilution - should it be a 10% or 20% solution? Maybe it doesn't matter . . .

    If you know what resource is available that identifies the best practice for this chemical, I'd love to get my hands on it -

    thanks.
    “Good photography is not about ‘Zone Printing’ or any other Ansel Adams nonsense. It’s just about seeing. You either see, or you don’t see.”

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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    Robert, IMHO, I think it doesn't matter much. The important thing is having the glass perfectly clean, with absolutely no grease, so don't touch surface anymore after cleaning.

    Wash very well with dishwashing soap, rinse very well with tap water and make a final bath in distilled water (mixed with everclear until 50% if you want faster drying).

    In theory a chrome allum bath may leave some little residue on the plate that would harden (if pH was also the rigth one) the gelatin layer in contact with glass, but I found that irrelevant as I add chrome allum in the emulsion finals. The most important is that the plate is completely clean, this is nothing on glass but air, because of that final bath in distilled water is good.

    My experience is that I get the same with a chrome allum treatment than with a perfectly clean plate, other's may see a benefit from the C-A... of course. Just try it, see what happens with 10%, 20% and with clean&distilled.

    http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/DryP...PlatePart4.htm

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    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    For subbing layer:

    Stir and melt 2g gelatin in 1L distilled water at 40C.
    While the gelatin is melting, dissolve 2g chrome alum into 100ml water (2% solution).
    Once the gelatin has fully melted into the 1L of water, add 10ml of the 2% chrome alum solution to this thin gelatin solution. Stir thoroughly.
    Dip your thoroughly cleaned plates into this, drain, and allow to dry. Then you can coat your plates. The subbing solution is good for about 2-3 days, after whichbit is no good.

    For emulsion hardening, just before coating, slowly add while stirring 5ml of the 2% chrome alum solution per 100ml of emulsion at 40C. Stir thoroughly. You have about 3 days to use up all that emulsion to coat plates with.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodda Duma View Post
    For subbing layer
    Thanks for posting this recipe, I've always coated directly on glass, but I'll try this way to see if I get less defects.

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    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    It will definitely help with frilling or lifting of emulsion if you do your part to clean the glass, and combined with hardening of the emulsion will eliminate temperature-related problems during development.

    I run the solution through a gold mesh coffee filter before using to remove air bubbles and any particulates or unmelted pieces of gelatin. If you use it after cooling, add a shot of ethanol (vodka or everclear) to help reduce air bubbles.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    One question... if dipping the plate then the other side of the plate also takes gelatin... when do you remove it ?

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    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    One question... if dipping the plate then the other side of the plate also takes gelatin... when do you remove it ?
    I don’t. At 0.2% gelatin, the resulting layer is so thin that there is no real need to. However, it can be removed after development along with any residual emulsion on the back side by using clorox wipes (or dilute bleach and a cloth).
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

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    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    Has anyone used potassium alum instead of chrome alum?

    I've used it to clear/harden carbon prints.
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    Nodda Duma's Avatar
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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    You could use potassium alum as a hardener, but that doesn’t provide the advantage chromium does in bonding to the glass. So for glass substrates, historically chrome alum has always been used as the hardener.
    Newly made large format dry plates available! Look:
    https://www.pictoriographica.com

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    Re: Sizing Glass Plate with Chromium Potassium Sulfate (Chromealum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nodda Duma View Post
    I don’t. At 0.2% gelatin, the resulting layer is so thin that there is no real need to. However, it can be removed after development along with any residual emulsion on the back side by using clorox wipes (or dilute bleach and a cloth).
    OK, thanks !

    I'll try it like you suggest, also I'll try to apply the preparation layer with a brush in the emulsion side only, it should work the same.

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