An E100 sheet film tease

[Pere Casals]

esp 8x10 or larger sizes (and heaven help 5x7 users) is a much smaller niche, and does indeed require special coating runs.

Drew, they cut 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 from same roll, Kodak usually made 50 inches x 2000 feet rolls.

You may rip a 50" roll in five 10" strips or ten 5" strips.

You can cut the 5" strips in 7" sheets or 4" sheets... ...or form a 10" strip they can cut all !! making two sheets in the 10" width.

5x7" is never a problem, you only need a Paper Guillotine, only 1" is lost from a 8x10", and it can be used for calibrations and drop tests, for total convenience we can use a IR night vision "ninja" toy to see while we cut.

[Drew Wiley]

Yes, thank you, I know that, Pere. But there is a minimum quantity of boxes necessary for each particular cut, due to the hassle of resetting the machinery involved. Since 5x7 and 11x14 are far less popular than 4x5 and 8x10, it might take a very long wait to get these sizes, unless you have the finances to leverage an entire minimum order yourself. As far as cutting down 8x10 to 5x7, yes, I'm well aware of that too, and even once made a very nice calibrated cutter to do it, but eventually gave it away. I love the proportion of 5x7; but when it comes to film registration for the kinds of color printing I was involved in, it can be done much more accurately on full 8x10, while 4x5 was a more convenient size for backpacking and mountaineering purposes, and can just be picked up at the local camera store, if necessary. The selection of 5x7 film in this country, particularly color, has always been scant.

[Pere Casals]

But there is a minimum quantity of boxes necessary for each particular cut, due to the hassle of resetting the machinery involved.

This is not the problem, once per year ilford even cuts the ulf size you want. A single man may cut and package 100 8x10 boxes in a day that are $15,000 worth ex-factory.

It's about bureocracy, marketing etc. Nor kodak and nor distributors won't handle a reference that is not make a $ volume per time unit, or it can expire in the shelf.

But IMHO if they coat on sheet base then there is no reason to to offer 8x10, propably they have a machine that takes a 10" strip and it also has a switch with 45, 57 and 81 positions.

[Drew Wiley]

Go make argument with them, Pere. It won't get you anywhere. The people and machinery dedicated to film is just a tiny fraction of what it once was. And if they can't figure out how to make money doing this, they simply aren't going to do it. Maybe some more efficient form of distribution could be devised, creating a softer landing for end-users, financially. But that might not be easy either. There has to be incentive there too. Then there's the nightmare of currency fluctuations. You can't hoard film as long as gold.

[Pere Casals]

Go make argument with them, Pere. It won't get you anywhere.

Yes, I guess that ilford's main drive to cut custom ulf is about making customers happy to deserve their loyalty. IMHO Kodak has still to "connect" with the new market's nature. Present users are not the kind of consumers they had in the past.

[SergeyT]

...Just this past year, in this area we lost both E6 and C41 processing in 8X10

Not quite, the E6 is still there : http://oscarsphotolab.com/film-processing/

[Oren Grad]

Yes, I guess that ilford's main drive to cut custom ulf is about making customers happy to deserve their loyalty.

The Ilford special cut program almost died in 2007, on its second go-round, because of low demand. It took a special decision by the ownership/management team to keep it going:

Current ILFORD ULF Make 'The Solution'

Don't ever take this stuff for granted.

[Drew Wiley]

Thanks, Sergey. I'd have to call them to see if that website is up to date. I know there was an attempt to keep 8x10 E6 going forward; but even that website shows no C41, which I currently use. Makes no difference - the time and expense just crossing the Bridge into SF would be more than a USPS Express box sending the film somewhere else, like the LA area. I've explained the problem before. Real estate is so valuable here that all kinds of viable services are losing their leases, simply so industrial buildings can be leveled and ultra-pricey condos or techie office quarters built in their place. It's an epidemic. I was offered all the machinery of one of the best equipped labs of all for downright free - maybe a couple million dollars worth! But where on earth would I put it? And why, at my age, would I want to mess with high volumes of unhealthy chemicals? Even the eco or haz business permits are very expensive to get. I'm content with my personal darkroom. So nearly all that gear was outright thrown away. The owner is well into his 70's and rich as heck anyway, has gosh knows how many businesses still going, and might as well enjoy his grandchildren while he still can.

[Pere Casals]

The Ilford special cut program almost died in 2007, on its second go-round, because of low demand. It took a special decision by the ownership/management team to keep it going:
Current ILFORD ULF Make 'The Solution'
Don't ever take this stuff for granted.

Of course, and to note that ilford pushed that in really harsh times. 2004 bankruptcy, 2005 leveraged buyout, 2006 IIRC selling the real state, 2007 integrating the Kentmere's crashed structure. But they also conquered the heart of many people from wanting to serve customers.

We'll see what happens with Ektachrome, but for the moment they are conquering the heart of many shooters that love film. Present users are not regular consumers, they are enthusiasts, and having a great slide film back...

[Drew Wiley]

Having had to wrangle with the corporate bean counter mentality for several decades, I can assertively state that most of the people in top marketing positions couldn't run a hot dog stand without going broke. First of all, they'd want to get rid of the pickles and relish, to cut costs, then the ketchup, and then finally expect customers to bring their own buns. Then when they finally got the cost of their hot dog down to 59 cents, serving it cold, and not a single customer in sight, they'd stare across the street at the guy with a hot dog stand and line of twenty people behind it, each waiting to get a six dollar hot dog with a choice of eighteen home-made relishes and condiments. When times get tight, put your best foot forward, and not the worst. You need something special in terms of product or service, that stands out from your competition. But all the marketing MBA's know how to do is look over their shoulder, and copy whatever stupid idea already bankrupted somebody else. Sure glad I'm out of the game.