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Thread: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

  1. #21

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Quote Originally Posted by rdeloe View Post
    It's not so much an addiction Doremus as trying to avoid compromising unless I have to....
    While base tilts are a bit more fiddly than axis tilts, there's really no compromise as far as the final image is concerned. Really, as far as placing the image plane goes, the only thing that matters is the spacial orientation of the planes of the film and front standard. How you arrive at that is immaterial. If you need to deal with base tilts in order to use a particular lens on your Wista without going to a lot of trouble and expense modifying the camera, I'd consider that a no-brainer...

    FWIW, I think that base tilts can be inherently more accurate than axis (or even asymmetrical) tilts. With base tilts you can pick focus points very far apart, at opposites sides on the ground glass, thus giving you a better chance of precisely positioning the movement that with axis tilts, with which you need to, by definition, choose one focus point on the center axis. Not doing so ends up involving a process of reiteration to get both focus points in sharp focus, which makes it, in practice, just the same as using a base tilt. Asymmetrical tilts and swings are more accurate than axis tilts/swings for the same reason.

    I use lightweight field cameras and have to deal with base tilts all the time; it's my trade-off (compromise, if you will) for minimizing weight. I find that, when I'm in practice, I can apply a movement using the base tilt just about as fast as I can with axis tilts. For me, adding weight and bulk to my kit would be an unacceptable compromise

    And, please take my admonition in my previous post as intended; with a smile and a touch of sarcasm. Upon re-reading, I can see how it could come off as a bit harsh or dismissive; not my intention as all.

    Best,

    Doremus

  2. #22

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    While base tilts are a bit more fiddly than axis tilts, there's really no compromise as far as the final image is concerned. Really, as far as placing the image plane goes, the only thing that matters is the spacial orientation of the planes of the film and front standard. How you arrive at that is immaterial. If you need to deal with base tilts in order to use a particular lens on your Wista without going to a lot of trouble and expense modifying the camera, I'd consider that a no-brainer...

    FWIW, I think that base tilts can be inherently more accurate than axis (or even asymmetrical) tilts. With base tilts you can pick focus points very far apart, at opposites sides on the ground glass, thus giving you a better chance of precisely positioning the movement that with axis tilts, with which you need to, by definition, choose one focus point on the center axis. Not doing so ends up involving a process of reiteration to get both focus points in sharp focus, which makes it, in practice, just the same as using a base tilt. Asymmetrical tilts and swings are more accurate than axis tilts/swings for the same reason.

    I use lightweight field cameras and have to deal with base tilts all the time; it's my trade-off (compromise, if you will) for minimizing weight. I find that, when I'm in practice, I can apply a movement using the base tilt just about as fast as I can with axis tilts. For me, adding weight and bulk to my kit would be an unacceptable compromise

    And, please take my admonition in my previous post as intended; with a smile and a touch of sarcasm. Upon re-reading, I can see how it could come off as a bit harsh or dismissive; not my intention as all.

    Best,

    Doremus
    Base tilts also shits subject placement. That is why asymmetrical movements came about. Optical axis movements do not change subject position.

    Once mastered all are fast and equally so.

  3. #23

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Doremus, no offense taken! Every Internet forum has its own character. Most have a very poor character... LFF is a refreshing contrast. People are generally polite and direct, which is good.
    Cheers, Rob

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    And, please take my admonition in my previous post as intended; with a smile and a touch of sarcasm. Upon re-reading, I can see how it could come off as a bit harsh or dismissive; not my intention as all.

    Best,

    Doremus

  4. #24

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Thanks for the picture Jim. That's actually quite helpful to see. I don't know where the replacement bellows I received was made, but it looks similar to the one in your picture from Custom Bellows. I except the CB bellows is a tight fit in that space (like mine). I had to change out the light seal foam on my Wista, and I started with a 3mm thick closed cell foam. I have to pull that out and replace it with something on the order of 1.5mm or 2mm because I can't close the case anymore. The tolerances are very tight.


    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    FYI, here is a picture showing a rather well used OEM Wista bellows on the left and a set from Custom Bellows on the right. The height from the table surface to the top rim of the front plate is 17mm on the OEM bellows, and 21mm on the CB bellows. The CB bellows easily compresses a few more mm, and I suspect that the Wista bellows would have sat a bit thicker when new. The Wista bellows have a papery feeling outer with a fabric lining, which the Custom Bellows are a synthetic outer, also with a fabric lining.
    Attachment 186355

  5. #25
    jim landecker JimL's Avatar
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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    I don't have any problem closing the camera - the front standard is definitely hitting the hard stops inside the body, as opposed to the bellows preventing it from going all the way back.

  6. #26

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    I need to talk to the seller. With the foam light seals removed, this is as far back as the bellows go... If those two parts of the rail are supposed to be flush, on my camera the rail part of the front standard is proud by about 1.5mm. Sigh. Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #27

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Good afternoon to everybody,

    I wonder why we have to extend the bellows and the focusing rail when working with field cameras.

    Bellows are sensible and expensive, a 600mm rail is bulky and fragile, too, especially in a backpack in the field.

    Cameras like the Mamiya Press and the Horseman VH or the Ebony New Wide 45 camera showed a simple solution to the extension problem.

    They added a little spacer box at the back of the camera, to do macros (Mamiya), to enlarge the image to 4x5 (Horseman), to allow focusing with longer lenses (Ebony).

    All you need is an wooden / aluminium box that fits into the Graflock mount of the 4x5 back on the camera.

    On the back of the box you need another Graflock back to mount the groundglass and the 4x5 film holder.

    I think this could even improve the balance of the camera, given that your 300mm bellows with the 600mm lens in the front standard is fully extended.

    If you connect the sides of the box with hinges, you can fold it flat for transport. Then you need a black cotton cloth of the inside of the extension box.

    This solution will be camera-independent. It works with every international 4x5 back.

    It's ideal to do macro photography, too.

    You can add several smaller spacers to obtain a given length, according to your lenses.

    Of course, shifting will be difficult (vignetting).

    To avoid vignetting, you could mount an enlarged spacer box directly on the camera body and install the entire Wista back on this enlarged box.

    Regards

  8. #28

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Casper Lohenstein View Post
    Good afternoon to everybody,

    I wonder why we have to extend the bellows and the focusing rail when working with field cameras.

    Bellows are sensible and expensive, a 600mm rail is bulky and fragile, too, especially in a backback in the field.

    Cameras like the Mamiya Press and the Horseman VH showed a simple solution to the extension problem.

    They added a little spacer box at the back of the camera, to do macros (Mamiya) or enlarge the image to 4x5 (Horseman).

    All you need is an wooden / aluminium box that fits into the Graflock mount of the 4x5 back on the camera.

    On the back of the box you need another Graflock back to mount the groundglass and the 4x5 film holder.

    I think this could even improve the balance of the camera, given that your 300mm bellows with the 600mm lens in the front standard is fully extended.

    If you connect the sides of the box with hinges, you can fold it flat for transport. Then you need a black cotton cloth of the inside of the extension box.

    This solution will be camera-independent. It works with every international 4x5 back.

    It's ideal to do macro photography, too.

    You can add several smaller spacers to obtain a given length, according to your lenses.

    Regards
    But it would severely limit back movements without vignetting!

  9. #29

    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Base tilts also shits subject placement...
    "Base tilts also shits subject placement."

    Now I know why my pictures stink.

    Mark

  10. #30

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    Re: Wista 45VX/RF/SP bellows draw and idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    But it would severely limit back movements without vignetting!
    Ja, natürlich!

    But - do we need much back movements with long focal lenses?

    Using a 600mm lens gives rather flat images of small details far away from the camera, with little enlargement in the dark room and long distance from the viewer to the print on the wall.

    And we don't photograph large houses, buildings or objects with great distances in depth, from near to far, or huge dimensions that need movements.

    Regards

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