EMA--initial agitation technique?

[CreationBear]

Forgive another "how long is a piece of string?" question, but I was wondering: I often see descriptions of "Extreme Minimal Agitation" that mention a one to two minute initial agitation that is more aggressive than the kinder, gentler (and shorter) agitations that punctuate each "stand."

For those of using tubes (e.g. of the Steve Sherman variety) what exactly does "aggressive" mean? Roll the tubes faster and stop them more abruptly? I've seen the Fred Newman videos where he takes the Shake Weight (TM) approach with his BTZS tubes before dropping them in the water bath, but at first blush that seems excessively burly for this particular approach...

[Alan9940]

I simply roll the tube in my darkroom sink, over a distance of about 1.5 - 2 feet, and it's about 3 - 4 secs travel between hands. Agitation technique is the same for initial and between stand cycles.

[j.e.simmons]

When I use tubes I do as Alan does. With hangers, I raise them about halfway up. When I first started with minimal agitation I interpreted minimal as barely jiggling the film. I had a lot of problems with those negatives. When agitating use vigorous agitation.

[Alan9940]

FWIW, like John I, too, use tanks/hangers for certain minimal agitation techniques and I've found Pyrocat-HD works best to avoid uneven development and other bothersome anomalies.

[CreationBear]

When agitating use vigorous agitation.

Thanks so much, gents--that's very helpful!

BTW, John--I know the history of your corner of the world pretty well, at least the Oglethorpe/Fort Frederica era...a very hot topic of conversation in Whitehall, back in the day.

[esearing]

With the SP 445 tank I do a figure 8 swapping hands. The goal is to move the dilute developer all over the film in those first couple of minutes to avoid uneven development. The standing allows the developer to create edge effects and exhaust locally.

[IanBarber]

With the SP 445 tank I do a figure 8 swapping hands. The goal is to move the dilute developer all over the film in those first couple of minutes to avoid uneven development. The standing allows the developer to create edge effects and exhaust locally.

Have you tried it by just rotating the tank through 360 degrees on the long side and if so did you see any uneven development

[Steve Sherman]

Forgive another "how long is a piece of string?" question, but I was wondering: I often see descriptions of "Extreme Minimal Agitation" that mention a one to two minute initial agitation that is more aggressive than the kinder, gentler (and shorter) agitations that punctuate each "stand."

For those of using tubes (e.g. of the Steve Sherman variety) what exactly does "aggressive" mean? Roll the tubes faster and stop them more abruptly? I've seen the Fred Newman videos where he takes the Shake Weight (TM) approach with his BTZS tubes before dropping them in the water bath, but at first, blush that seems excessively burly for this particular approach...

I suggest to those who are in contact with me using a capped tube (my tube design) to roll the tube on a flat surface, (not bumpy) for approx. 60 - 80 revolutions per minute with initial agitation of not less than 1.5 minutes. In the early days in an open canister, any kind of stirring actions was very harmful, I switched to a plunging type action similar to a washing machine agitation which eliminated any uneven development. The initial agitation is most critical with regard to even development. When success is achieved be consistent to a fault and move forward.

[CreationBear]

With the SP 445 tank I do a figure 8 swapping hands.

Thanks, Eric--my community lab actually has an SP 445, so that's an option I definitely want to explore. (After I shoot my way through my first box of FP4+ so I will have an efficient way of schlepping film across town...)

Steve-- Thanks for the insights...I am using your ABS/test-plug tubes, so that really helps me visualize the first part of the process. I definitely want to explore your video series once I get far enough up the learning curve--hopefully I'll start printing soon and thus get a feel for evaluating negatives for their effects on paper.