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Thread: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

  1. #21
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    I think it will come down to two or three items. First though, the work involved in learning to drum scan I do not consider a hurdle. What is important is longevity in keeping the scanner operational before needing to replace it, up time for scanner vs down time and just how well it pulls in the details we/I are after. It may not be appropriate for every situation, but having the right tool when needed is better than not. This does not in any way though lesson the need to be competent at capture or in processing the film and it will for sure not make a turd smell any better.

    I work with high end simulation software and do classical hand analysis of aircraft/spacecraft structures and I can tell you for sure that crap in is x2 crap out. So it would be with a drum scanner or any scanner for that matter. If the negative/slide you are feeding it is crap to start with no amount of polishing will get good out. If you feed a great image to scanner, but are inept at making a scan, then you will also get crap out.

  2. #22

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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Can you show us examples of your Howtek scans?
    Hi Alan,
    I am happy to send you a scan of a 10x8" Provia 100 transparency made on my Howtek at 2000dpi but i'm not sure what use it will be if you can't compare it to the same piece of film scanned on a flatbed. It will need to be by Dropbox as the file size is in the order of 900Mb.
    Let me know.

    ...Sweep

  3. #23
    Alan Klein's Avatar
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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Sweep, You make a good point. Thanks, but let's not do it. I was hoping if someone had a comparison of medium format sample showing the difference between the Howtek or other drum scanner vs. a flat bed like the Epson V series.

  4. #24
    Pali K Pali K's Avatar
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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    Listen to Pali, he's got a wealth of experience on the drums and other scanners. He knows what's up.
    Thanks Bryan!

    I feel like everyone is reaching for their own ideal results that are so subjective based on persontal taste and benchmark for quality that it's impossible to have a fair representation of opinions. It is also very unfortunate that every conversation on the topic is suffering from the extreme bias from a few that just don't understand simple facts from wishes. I want to be helpful but I struggle to find the energy to keep up with the same inevitable argument.

    If I were talking to my old self before I got the gear I now have, I would tell myself that I don't need anything other than an Epson V700-V850 if all I shot was B&W LF film. If I needed scans from 35mm and 6x4.5 and best color scans without color bleeding or muting in high contrast negatives, I would tell myself to get a Cezanne, Scitex, or IQSmart with 16 BIT. I would only tell myself to get a drum scanner if I was absolutely dead set on having the best possible digital archive of film and economics made sense to buy vs paying for drum scans.

    That said, I now have Epson v700, ES Pro, ES Supreme, Scanmate 5000, Scanmate 11000, and Tango. Absurd? Absolutely, but these are all rescued scanners that I have spent countless hours fixing other than the V700 and Scanmate 11000. Now here are the main points that I try to put out there if anyone wishes to benefit from my absurd situation:

    - ES Supreme is my most used scanner
    - ES PRO would be my most used scanner if Supreme was not in the mix. Even it's 8 bit output outperforms anything from Epson
    - Tango is my go-to for archiving slide film
    - Scanmate 11000 is my go-to for archiving color and bw negative film. Scanmate 5000 would be next in line if I didn't have 11000
    - Epson v700 has been in the box it came in since I got ES Pro for $200
    - Epson v700 is the fastest scanner I have

    I hope this conversation with myself is helpful to someone

    Pali

  5. #25

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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Quote Originally Posted by Pali K View Post
    - ES PRO ... Even it's 8 bit output outperforms anything from Epson
    Pali, IMHO that is wrong.

    the EPSON with ME is beyond effective 12 bits accuracy.
    Last edited by Pere Casals; 12-Dec-2018 at 13:46.

  6. #26
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    It is always good to get a variety of opinions, even if we think wrong. Because in the end as long as we have open minds we will learn new things that only help us grow. We should always do what works for us regardless of what the masses say.

  7. #27

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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    If you have a sizeable collection of 4x5 negatives from which you need to squeeze the last few % of resolution and tonality, then you may need to spend the time and money on a drum scanner.

    For less money and effort, consider moving up from the very bottom of LF to 5x7 or larger. 5x7 give you an immediate 20% increase in image size along the shorter dimension and 40% along the longer dimension. Most of that translates into higher resolution. My 1930's wooden 5x7 Kodak camera is modestly priced but fitted with a modern lens does OK.

    See this 5x7 sample image, dry-scanned with a consumer grade Epson scanner.

  8. #28

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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    5x7
    With 5x7" an Epson works in a sweet point, because the Hi Res lens just covers 5.9". In that situation it pulls effective 200MPix, more than enough for a flawless 1.5m print, even if viewed with nose on it.

    A drum would allow to enlarge to 2m instead 1.5m, with perfect quality in both situations, if the negative quality allows that 2m size that it's not always the case. Dimensions may vary depending on what we demand, but the relationship should be around that...

    What I find very important is Ps skills, acutance has to be optimized for the intended viewing distance, one thing is checking sharpness in the monitor and another one optimizing for the print in the way it will be displayed. Many people don't realize that.

  9. #29
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    If you have a sizeable collection of 4x5 negatives from which you need to squeeze the last few % of resolution and tonality, then you may need to spend the time and money on a drum scanner.

    For less money and effort, consider moving up from the very bottom of LF to 5x7 or larger. 5x7 give you an immediate 20% increase in image size along the shorter dimension and 40% along the longer dimension. Most of that translates into higher resolution. My 1930's wooden 5x7 Kodak camera is modestly priced but fitted with a modern lens does OK.

    See this 5x7 sample image, dry-scanned with a consumer grade Epson scanner.
    I am seriously considering the move up. This will also let me do 6x17 panos as well. Lest, I fall all the way into the rabbit hole and end up at 8x10 (which may very well happen) But I do like the idea of a 5x7, nice in-between. And I can buy a 5x7 back for my current Chamonix 45H-1 or just buy a f5x7 from them or elsewhere for a little bit more money of the larger back.

    PS,
    That is impressive.

  10. #30
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: How about something like a Howtek drum scanner

    Ken Lee shows actual fact with a scan.

    He also shares what he knows to work.

    I have spent many hours on his website.

    Thank you





    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Lee View Post
    If you have a sizeable collection of 4x5 negatives from which you need to squeeze the last few % of resolution and tonality, then you may need to spend the time and money on a drum scanner.

    For less money and effort, consider moving up from the very bottom of LF to 5x7 or larger. 5x7 give you an immediate 20% increase in image size along the shorter dimension and 40% along the longer dimension. Most of that translates into higher resolution. My 1930's wooden 5x7 Kodak camera is modestly priced but fitted with a modern lens does OK.

    See this 5x7 sample image, dry-scanned with a consumer grade Epson scanner.
    Tin Can

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