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Thread: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at sunset

  1. #21

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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su


    My description is not the clearest but hopefully the attached photo gives you a better idea.


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  2. #22

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    Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at sunset

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Darragh View Post

    My description is not the clearest but hopefully the attached photo gives you a better idea.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hi Mark, if I am not mistaken, itís effectively just stacking a the medium/hard from lee on top of the reverse ND. Correct?
    Last edited by l2oBiN; 7-Dec-2018 at 13:56.

  3. #23
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    That is why I use a reverse grad nd. That way only the horizon and sky are darkened, with the horizon receiving the most darkening.

  4. #24
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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    Here is an initial image. I added a bit too much green saturation, but I am too tired to fix right now as this is just to show the difficult image I am working with. Still needs a lot of work, but I also need to step back for a bit as it took me quite a bit to get a usable image. You can definitely see the severe vignetting of the lens at f/16 in this image. Didn't put on flickr as that site seriously dicks with the image. This is no where near the final image, but like stated, it is example of what I am working with. The sky was indeed that saturated, if not more so for the real sky too. Foreground could have used way more exposure, but the sky wouldn't let me. No one on this trip got a great image either digital or film. This was a royal pain of a scene.

    Nikkor 75mm f/4.5@f/16 and 1 second. Polarizer filter, shot on Provia 100 RDPIII. I was focusing on the sky trying not to blow it out. This is directly into the sun.


    https://www.steveruttenbergphotograp...aff5#hbfdcaff5

    Steve: You shouldn't have to be playing with individual RGB colors to get the colors right. Something else is wrong. The ground appears under exposed.. But you may be stuck with that if you exposed correctly for the sky. You can't recover what's not there in the first place. Does the slide look normal when viewed on a light table or equivalent? How are you scanning it? Scan it "flat" without any adjustments at all during the scan and then post it here.

  5. #25

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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    This may just be one of those situations where Velvia 50 isnít the best choice. Sometimes matching choice of film to the subject is more prudent.

  6. #26
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Klein View Post
    Steve: You shouldn't have to be playing with individual RGB colors to get the colors right. Something else is wrong. The ground appears under exposed.. But you may be stuck with that if you exposed correctly for the sky. You can't recover what's not there in the first place. Does the slide look normal when viewed on a light table or equivalent? How are you scanning it? Scan it "flat" without any adjustments at all during the scan and then post it here.
    The image is scanned as a linear tif raw file with no adjustments at scanning whatsoever. Part of the issue is the sky was soooo red, it thru a red tint onto everything. The ground is not underexposed on the slide, it is dark as intended, but not underexposed. The issue is really with trying to take an analogue image and digitize it. That can work well most of the time, but sometimes, you just can't get there from here.

    I have also found that every slide I scan that when I scan it as a linear raw tif (as flat and unadulterated as you can get for a scan) they all have a color cast of sorts. Mostly too much blue, but sometimes you get this weird one. Like I said, that sky was soooo red and bright that you get the red color on everything. That is the cast I am talking about. Our eyes filter it out when we see the scene, but the film picks it up. While subtle on the film (we may not perceive it) when it is scanned it pops out ugly as can be. So that requires some adjustment.

    With Vuescan and the Epson, I can remove that prior to scan by adjusting the color gain a bit. If I don't do it there, I will do it in PS, but it is easier to start with a file as correct as it can be prior to PS.

    If I post the linear raw tif, you won't be able to see any foreground, maybe 5%, but that is because th gamma is 1. Converting it to gamma 2.2 does not yield satisfactory results so I use Colorperfect to make the initial post-processing adjustments and then use PS for the rest. This again is just the working file, far from completion, but I wanted to show what I am working with. I may very well just decide to toss this image unless a small miracle comes along.

    I will post up a jpg of the file just after scan tonight. I would put tiff up but it is just south of 4gb. I can put file on dropbox if anyone wants to screw around with it.

  7. #27
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianShaw View Post
    This may just be one of those situations where Velvia 50 isn’t the best choice. Sometimes matching choice of film to the subject is more prudent.
    And matching exposure to destination as well. Ie, expose to scan and print or to print. I can get away with an exposure for scanning and printing and old fashioned printing as well. Hopefully I can start that next year by the summer.

  8. #28
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    When using grad nds, be careful as well. If they leak IR and your film is somewhat sensitive it can cause washed out blacks. You can also get a greenish tint or colorshift if the grad nd is not of high quality.

  9. #29

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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    Quote Originally Posted by l2oBiN View Post
    Hi Mark, if I am not mistaken, itís effectively just stacking a the medium/hard from lee on top of the reverse ND. Correct?
    Itís actually two standard grads. By varying the amount you cross them you can vary the reverse grad effect. In the scenario you are planning to photograph you could use your reverse grad as you normally would and then a weaker standard grad which you invert and position so the transition areas cross. That might be enough to give you the extra density around the sun without buying new filters. If you use say a .6 grad inverted youíll need to add two stops to your base exposure for the foreground. Grab a couple of your filters and try it out by eye.
    Lee filters used to have an article on this technique on their website but it seems to have disappeared, perhaps because they are making reverse grads.


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  10. #30
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Metering and closure technique for shooting Velvia 50 straight into the sun at su

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Darragh View Post
    It’s actually two standard grads. By varying the amount you cross them you can vary the reverse grad effect. In the scenario you are planning to photograph you could use your reverse grad as you normally would and then a weaker standard grad which you invert and position so the transition areas cross. That might be enough to give you the extra density around the sun without buying new filters. If you use say a .6 grad inverted you’ll need to add two stops to your base exposure for the foreground. Grab a couple of your filters and try it out by eye.
    Lee filters used to have an article on this technique on their website but it seems to have disappeared, perhaps because they are making reverse grads.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is a good idea and I have done that before, but I didn't reverse it though.

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