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Thread: Vuescan acting wonky!

  1. #31
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Baker View Post
    One simple solution from a capture perspective if your wet mounting is, three passes with each colour. And simply combine the three images. This does mean that you will need to do the post image processing yourself, which may or may not be a problem (i.e. raw scanning where you do all the processing yourself including gamma, and color matrix). For example if your using colour perfect, that requires a raw scan anyway, so you have don't have to do the hard bits.

    Actually I think there may a magic trick to fool vuescan, and get around the 32bit limit. Will give it a go next scanning session and let you know.
    That actually is interesting idea. Especially for color. I will have to give it a try. For b/w that would allow an easier comparison of which channel gives the best overall file. But so far, green channel seems to edge out the other two most of the time when I look at in PS when doing 48bit color slide option for b/w negatives (seems to give the best results so far, but I am just the new guy , I might not be seeing what I think I am seeing)

    Thanks, I look forward to your results on your next scan session.

  2. #32
    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    How would you do three passes, each with a different color? The traditional way would be to use red light for one, green for another, and blue light for the last, optimizing each exposure for each color of light. But the espon doesn't have an RGB controllable light source. If you use filters, you will limit the dynamic range of the scanner, as you would be adding density. This does seem like an interesting idea for dslr scanning with an RGB controllable light source.
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
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  3. #33

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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    How would you do three passes, each with a different color? The traditional way would be to use red light for one, green for another, and blue light for the last, optimizing each exposure for each color of light. But the espon doesn't have an RGB controllable light source. If you use filters, you will limit the dynamic range of the scanner, as you would be adding density. This does seem like an interesting idea for dslr scanning with an RGB controllable light source.
    Its just the way the scanner works, I don't thing BTW it has B&W mode. The firmware just chugs away in colour regardless, i.e. it moves each coloured sensor over the same spot. I.e with a 6 line sensor the stepper motor needs to move 6 times to cover the same row... (Actually a multiple of 6 to get a certain number of complete rows)

    What is happening in the image processing pipeline for all three channels are either:

    1. saved as each channel
    2. a matrix operation performed and then saved
    3. the channel is discarded.

    It just at save time you have a problem, none of the scan programmes can save a 64bit tiff.

    So if just save a file that has 1 channel from the input you will not run into this limit.
    Or put it another way, do a colour scan, and discard two channels, repeat two more times discard different combinations.

    Hopes this makes some sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    This does seem like an interesting idea for dslr scanning with an RGB controllable light source.
    You might be right... That's currently what I am working on.

  4. #34
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    Vuescan has an rgb option if you choose b/w 16 bit. In theory you could choose red green and blue for the passes. Should work on a color positive. When you combine in PS you then get a 48bit rgb image. However, I have not tried for a positive yet, but since saving a raw linear image file it should work. I have to check and see for color setting but I don't think you can choose channel. Only when doing 16bit gray.

  5. #35
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    Here is an excerpt from Vuescan user's manual. Read carefully, there is some hidden information here. It looks like the best way to make a linear scan is to use the image option. Not color slide, slide or negative options as these are applying a color correction of sorts so your image is altered regardless of how you save it possibly. But, if you choose image option, there is no color correction at all and you truly get what you see on the negative. You probably new this, but user's manual alludes to being able to scan with different color channel settings to get three images one for each color channel that can be combined into a single file inside of PS to get a color file. Alignment should be of little to no concern other.

    I hope to have some time tonight to try this out and some other ideas as well.

    Transmissive media

    When scanning film, this option indicates whether you're using positive film (i.e. slides), color negative, or black/white negative film. This option causes the default film type to be changed, but also sets up the scanner for scanning orange-colored media (i.e. color negatives) by exposing the green and blue channels more than the red channel.

    If you choose "Image", no film correction is applied, so the cropped file will be comparable to the image on the film. If you select "Negative film" or "Slide film", the cropped image will be comparable to the original scene that was photographed. When you use either film option, the Color tab then lets you choose the film manufacturer, the brand, and film type to enable VueScan to refine the result further.

    The difference between "Image" and "Slide film" is subtle. If you take the same picture with Kodachrome and Ektachrome film and then scan them with the "Slide film" setting, VueScan will try to make the resulting scan look the same (i.e. to resemble the original scene). Use the "Image" setting and the resulting scans will look different to reflect the differing color characteristics of Kodachrome and Ektachrome film.

    If you then took the same picture with Kodak Gold color negative film and scanned it using the "Negative film" setting, the resulting scan should look close to what you would get from using the "Slide film" setting and scanning the Kodachrome and Ektachrome slides (i.e. all three should look like the original scene).

    VueScan contains sensitometric data for 200 types of negative film and 4 types of slide film. If you've got something different, choose Kodachrome for K14 process slides, and Ektachrome for E6 slides.

  6. #36

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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Ruttenberg View Post
    Here is an excerpt from Vuescan user's manual. Read carefully, there is some hidden information here. It looks like the best way to make a linear scan is to use the image option. Not color slide, slide or negative options as these are applying a color correction of sorts so your image is altered regardless of how you save it possibly. But, if you choose image option, there is no color correction at all and you truly get what you see on the negative. You probably new this, but user's manual alludes to being able to scan with different color channel settings to get three images one for each color channel that can be combined into a single file inside of PS to get a color file. Alignment should be of little to no concern other.

    I hope to have some time tonight to try this out and some other ideas as well.

    Transmissive media

    When scanning film, this option indicates whether you're using positive film (i.e. slides), color negative, or black/white negative film. This option causes the default film type to be changed, but also sets up the scanner for scanning orange-colored media (i.e. color negatives) by exposing the green and blue channels more than the red channel.

    If you choose "Image", no film correction is applied, so the cropped file will be comparable to the image on the film. If you select "Negative film" or "Slide film", the cropped image will be comparable to the original scene that was photographed. When you use either film option, the Color tab then lets you choose the film manufacturer, the brand, and film type to enable VueScan to refine the result further.

    The difference between "Image" and "Slide film" is subtle. If you take the same picture with Kodachrome and Ektachrome film and then scan them with the "Slide film" setting, VueScan will try to make the resulting scan look the same (i.e. to resemble the original scene). Use the "Image" setting and the resulting scans will look different to reflect the differing color characteristics of Kodachrome and Ektachrome film.

    If you then took the same picture with Kodak Gold color negative film and scanned it using the "Negative film" setting, the resulting scan should look close to what you would get from using the "Slide film" setting and scanning the Kodachrome and Ektachrome slides (i.e. all three should look like the original scene).

    VueScan contains sensitometric data for 200 types of negative film and 4 types of slide film. If you've got something different, choose Kodachrome for K14 process slides, and Ektachrome for E6 slides.
    This is basically why I suggested that if you take this approach you need to use three raw scans, and use a tool that support raw scans like colour perfect. Otherwise you are unlikely to be able to reproduce any matrix adjustments that vuescan might make, unless Ed from Vuescan tells you what they are...

  7. #37
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Vuescan acting wonky!

    I have an email to him. I will see what specifics I will get back. I use colorperfect, love it. If this works this will be a good item to have.

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