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Thread: Toilets in the Back-country?

  1. #1
    http://www.spiritsofsilver.com tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Toilets in the Back-country?

    Apparently under consideration for the increasingly John Muir Trail in the Sierra Nevada:

    Bob, I couldn't agree more with you on the High Sierra Camps! These places have LONG since outlived their usefulness! I can't imagine a day with pit toilets all along the JMT! The first thing they should do to start minimizing damage is to ban all horse and mule traffic except those needed for any suppport for rangers or trail maintenance! They destroy much of the fine work trail crews do, and attract flies everywhere they've been! It's one of the main reasons I've steered mostly clear of the JMT corridor the last few years and doing off piste routes. It's amazing how wonderful it is to see the country parallel to the JMT, and one doesn't have to go too far to find solitude. I agree that LNT principles need to be taught, but from what I've seen of the weekend warrior hikers lately, there's a LONG way to go on the education front! I actually would be happy if they did away with Bear cans and easy resupply points to actually make it HARDER for people to do the JMT as they'd have to carry and store all of their food in an approved Bear can. The JMT should be a trail that rewards those that are willing to work for it a bit, just my 2 cents The easier they make it logistically, the more bodies you'll see on it.

    Not only do they have toilets in the huts in NZ, many of their tracks have outhouses along the trail side.
    Also the Wonderland trail has composting toilets at/ near designated campsites- must say- I was not seeing any of the “ white blooms” of wadded TP on any of those trails. Up in the Jefferson Wilderness and Wallowas in Oregon though- such a shame to see areas that people just leave it where they go- sad and disgusting


    There are special use provisions that allow for certain land uses and development under the Wilderness Act, as long as it is deemed to be necessary by a Minimum Requirement Analysis. A congressional guidance document on the topic says: “Generally, we only place toilets in locations where reducing or dispersing visitor use has failed to alleviate a sanitation problem or prevent significant degradation of wilderness character and values”.

    What do you think? Should there be pit toilets or porta potties along wilderness trails?

    Thomas

  2. #2
    Foamer
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    In this case yes. If there are enough people to warrant it. I did parts of that trail about 15 years ago, and honestly I saw more poop on the sidewalks of Frisco than the trail.


    Kent in SD
    In contento ed allegria
    Notte e di vogliam passar!

  3. #3

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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    I’m all for it as long as they are dark enough to use as a film changing room too!

  4. #4
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    I know I can't read the blue font...
    Tin Can

  5. #5
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    Certain sections of the JMT, High Sierra Trail, and vicinity of Tuolumne Mdws etc are overpopulated with both people and bears. A bit of artificial management
    is nearly requisite, provided its low-profile. There are a few rustic toilet enclosures now, here n' there, but nothing resembling a porta potty. You can't drive into those places and pump em! As far as food goes, I'm not aware of any resupply points in Wilderness Areas. Folks have to either hike out n' back or have someone carry fresh supplies in, either on foot or by horse/mule, and meet them somewhere. Both Vermillion Valley Resort and the little store at Florence Lake are outside such boundaries and a significant detour. There is are four formal backcountry camps Yosemite by reservation, where food is served, and one in Sequoia on the HS Trail not too far in, plus a few winter ski huts. But the New Zealand model, well ... My nephew was doing a NZ feature article for some climbing magazine when he was living with me. The climbers hut on Mt Cook sits on a pinnacle to avoid avalanches, and the outhouse is a short distance away, perched over the abyss, and everything simply falls through the hole and hundred of feet down onto the glacier. One night someone had to go, but didn't bother to put on his crampons, and slipped on the ice and went right over himself, fatally of course.

  6. #6
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    I977 I camped at Puerto Penasco on the edge Sea of Cortez. Far from the town on a pristine beach. Clean!

    No toilets, so I did the obvious. Walked over the sandhill away from the sea.

    What a shit hole. Toilet paper and tiny holes as far as I could see.

    I dug a hole and covered my mess, but I am sure the strong winds uncovered it shortly.
    Tin Can

  7. #7
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    Composting toilets are easy to maintain for light use if people turn the drum after use. They don't need much extra infrastructure. A bag of peat and jug of water is much easier to deal with than pumping trucks for portapotties or excavating holes for outhouses. They could be hidden/camouflaged in an outhouse like structure.

    The horses and mules will eventually be replaced by drones...

  8. #8
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    Drones in the backcountry? Sounds worse than toilet paper. In fact, they would be illegal in formally designated Wilderness, just like chainsaws or any other kind of motorized equipment. Helicopters are used for very limited operations like rescues and delivering major sections of key bridges. For another thing, drones pose a real fire hazard. All it takes is a Coke bottle acting like a magnifying glass, or some shiny thing like a crashed drone, not to mention a corroded lithium battery, to start another catastrophic fire. Do you think I'm exaggerating? Just turn on the evening news lately. Now, thankfully, drones have been outlawed in even our Regional and State parks. The overall topic is ridiculous anyway. The Wilderness Permit rules state that you have to carry out used toilet paper. Yeah sure, I doubt even a single Wilderness Ranger ever complies with that idiotic idea. Some people spend weeks and even a few months at a time in the backcountry. It's not like little beaches on the Colorado River on a rafting trip. Most of the high Sierra is easy to find seclusion in. It's a big area. The crowds gravitate to only a small percent of it, and even the numbers of hikers on the most popular trail are regulated. Horses and mule trains are limited by regulation as well, but even more by the fact they simply can't get a lot of places. So leave your drones and ATV's and hula hoops at home. Your stupid Smartphone won't get reception anyway, so might as well forget that too. Turn the clock back a century, and you might actually enjoy life for a few days!

  9. #9
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    NYC & SF Tech is everywhere. https://www.gotenna.com/

    These units mesh your phone with others and can reach out well beyond Cell Towers. Rise Up. https://www.gotenna.com/pages/risenyc

    Or get a Ham Radio license and a Faraday cage.

    Button, button, who's got the button?
    Tin Can

  10. #10
    jp's Avatar
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    Re: Toilets in the Back-country?

    Between new spectrum allocation schemes like whitespace, IOT in uhf frequencies, and commercial rocket launches putting up commercial low orbit satellite constellations, we are not far from the days of inexpensive communications anywhere on or above the Earth's surface. You won't need a sat phone or licensed HF radio. It's reasonable that nobody can have drones except the park authorities, who will then used them to deliver in advance supplies that people previously had to carry in. In my area, places like Mt. Kahtadin and the AT, it would be possible for a drone to deliver water or food early in the morning to the mountain tops before any hikers have made it that far for a hefty convenience fee. Nobody would ever see them or hear them work on a different schedule. It could be for emergency or profit for the park authorities. In an emergency, it could deliver a first aid kit and radio in advance of the slower staff headed to the trouble location and reduce confusion about locations, whether the persons have stayed put or not, etc... Like it or not, it's getting practical. Maybe in the bay area, they could carry fire extinguishers and thermal cameras. Maybe the thermal imaging would simply be a subscription service from a low orbit satellite system. Yes, you can choose to avoid all this in your hiking, but if the stewards of the park can use tech to make it safer and reduce impact while saving money, we can reasonably expect they will. They are annoying, but I do expect they'll get quieter over time.

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