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Thread: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

  1. #1

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    Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    I was wondering if anyone here knows of a way or has first hand experience creating a digital negative that is suitable for making silver gelatin darkroom enlargements?

    I have some damaged large format film and glass plate negatives and I thought that maybe there is a method to scan them, edit in Photoshop, and then create a digital negative to ultimately make regular darkroom enlargements. I know that a lot of photographers make digital negatives for contact printing of various types of prints, but I haven't heard of anyone making a digital negative for the purpose of making enlargements.

    Any ideas or input is appreciated.

    Larry

  2. #2

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    There are dedicated Film Recorders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_recorder

    A popular device is a Kodak LVT Rihno, LVT stands for (IIRC) Light Valve Technology.

    You have to find a lab providing that kind of film print service, you will obtain perfect negatives, look for rhinos...

    Genesis exhibition by Sebastiao Salgado used negatives printed with a Rihno. His post 2007 work was made with canon DSLRs, so they had consistency problems to match TXP 120mm negatives shot with Pentax 645. Amazonas production staff (editing Genesis work) ended editing the digital images (also introducing synthetic grain) to match the TXP, then printed it on 8x10" Delta 100 with the Rihno, 4 images per sheet, and finally they made optical enlargements.

    I guess that they wanted to sell part of the globally exhibited material (there were multiple series in every country), and collectors usually buy optical stuff.

    This was a remarkable job... I guess that when Taschen is near...

  3. #3

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    Thank you. This is very interesting. You've given me some ideas as a place to start doing some research.

    I think this is the beginning of a longer-term journey.

    Thanks again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    There are dedicated Film Recorders. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_recorder

    A popular device is a Kodak LVT Rihno, LVT stands for (IIRC) Light Valve Technology.

    You have to find a lab providing that kind of film print service, you will obtain perfect negatives, look for rhinos...

    Genesis exhibition by Sebastiao Salgado used negatives printed with a Rihno. His post 2007 work was made with canon DSLRs, so they had consistency problems to match TXP 120mm negatives shot with Pentax 645. Amazonas production staff (editing Genesis work) ended editing the digital images (also introducing synthetic grain) to match the TXP, then printed it on 8x10" Delta 100 with the Rihno, 4 images per sheet, and finally they made optical enlargements.

    I guess that they wanted to sell part of the globally exhibited material (there were multiple series in every country), and collectors usually buy optical stuff.

    This was a remarkable job... I guess that when Taschen is near...

  4. #4

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    Let me add that you can also print directly on FB paper with a lambda service, like Bob Carnie. If you want the negative to be enlarged then you need a film recorder because it has required resolving power for that.

  5. #5

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    I appreciate the follow up. Looks like the Rhino+ is the way to go. I just need to find a couple labs that offer the service and test this out. Looks very promising!


    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Let me add that you can also print directly on FB paper with a lambda service, like Bob Carnie. If you want the negative to be enlarged then you need a film recorder because it has required resolving power for that.

  6. #6

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    Quote Originally Posted by LFLarry View Post
    I appreciate the follow up. Looks like the Rhino+ is the way to go. I just need to find a couple labs that offer the service and test this out. Looks very promising!
    Hello Larry,

    Not sure where your based in the world but i'm currently setting up an LVT at Analogue Arts in London.
    So far it's set up for B&W Neg and Provia E6 at Res80 (2032dpi). Hoping to sort colour neg later in the year.

    www.analogue-arts.com

  7. #7

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    Could you print the output of your photoshop editing and photograph the print?

  8. #8

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    You might find this helpful: PiezoDN

    Also this is coming soon: Piezography Professional Edition Toolset v2
    Last edited by Ken Lee; 26-Oct-2018 at 09:25.

  9. #9

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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    A rihno negative can be enlarged to x12 with no detectable flaw in the print, an inkjet negative should be used for contact copy, so it has to be made of same size than the print for contact copy usage.

    Another thing, usually it's hard to see if a print from comes from an LF regular sheet or from a rihno digital negative, even with a loupe. Of course contact copies from inkjets also look nice...

  10. #10
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    Re: Digital Negative For Silver Gelatin Enlargements?

    LVT recorders were made popular in large commercial labs in the late 80's and once the Kodak Premier system was fully developed LVT's started to be less used. The Lambdas then came in and replaced all the horizontal enlargers.

    I have printed many shows from LVT positives, and negatives and they work really well.

    I make digital film for silver gelatin printing on any paper, but my process is where the negative is the size of the print, largest to date was 28 x 42 inches. My film CANNOT be put in an enlarger btw.

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