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Thread: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulon

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    critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulon

    4x5 with 120mm Schneider Super Angulon 120mm, f32 with front rise and tilt. I got the awnings in focus but the building facade is a bit too far back, I understand that error. I'm wondering if the additional blurriness on roof line and front porch area is because I'm just asking too much of the lens given the fairly large amount of rise. My tripod leg is against the building across the street so I can't get any farther away. Next I'll try f45 or f64 but I know there can be issues there with sharpness but at least I will get better overall depth of focus and be good for small to medium enlargements (I plan to print). I feel like I need a lens a little wider but don't want to spend the money without knowing if that's the correct solution.
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    Corran's Avatar
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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    Tilting the lens when shooting a flat-faced building is a bad idea. You've made the DOF slice through the building and are making the top and bottom be more out of focus than they would be otherwise. Stop down for front-to-back sharpness (as needed) but don't tilt for this kind of shot. Especially as you have no foreground elements to warrant tilting.
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    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    What Corran said. This is the basic frontal architecture shot: Zero all the movements, focus with the camera bed level, and use rise for composition to center the building in the frame. Your 120mm Super-Angulon on 4x5 should have plenty of coverage for this situation.
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

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    David Lobato David Lobato's Avatar
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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    As already said, tilt was not needed. For a vertical surface like the front facade and square (parallel) to the camera, the camera front standard and camera back need to be parallel to it. Thus both front and back standards on the camera should be vertical. The photo looks like you tilted the top of front standard towards the back.

    Tilts and swings impart an angle to the in-focus plane where details are sharp.

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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    As everyone posted, since your subject (building) is vertical, you zero your tilts and swings so that your plane of focus is also vertical. Given your fairly wide angle lens (120) and distance from your subject, you can focus on the front of the building, and as long as you are somewhat shut down, say f22, you should be fine. But to understand better, the “in focus” area actually is in front of, and behind, your plane of focus. This can become more important when you still need a vertical plane of focus, but want areas both closer and further to still appear sharp. Essentially you place the plane of focus midway between the closest and furthest point that should appear sharp. If you wanted to practice in your picture, you would focus half way from the front of the awning and the face of the building, which in your example you can do by counting the horizontal lines n the awning. Technically this would let you use a larger aperture and still have everything sharp. Apologies if I have confused you!

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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    Thank you all and I should have known better than to tilt the front. I understand Peter's comment about focusing 1/2 way "deep" into the awning to get both the bricks and the awning fronts in focus, but what about the fact that the top is so far away? Even though it is within the plane of focus (of the building face) it is still farther away and so this must be considered, right? I think I saw this in the ground glass at wide open that the top was very much out of focus (with all standards vertical). I focused at a point about 1/2 way up the building for this reason. Do you experienced guys ever do some kind of depth of field calculation to ensure you're using a sufficient aperture? What I'm getting at is does my f/32 sound sufficient? I will go back there and try f/45 and f/64 regardless but it would be interesting to know how one decides what aperture to use in cases when you can't get a good view of all of them in the ground glass (because things are so dim).

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    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    Pretty much all conventional modern lenses are very flat-field, meaning they'll focus a flat subject plane that's perpendicular-to-the-lens-axis/parallel-to-the-film-plane (or however you want to say it) on the flat film plane. Once you've gotten rid of the tilt, I'd guess f/32 is more than sufficient, but check stuff like that with a good loupe on the ground glass, (and get used to doing that as a standard operating procedure).

    There are also depth-of-field apps and calculators, but once you do start using swings and tilts, you can pretty much forget about them.
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    Level the camera on tripod. Level BOTH front and rear standards at the building position required on the GG. Apply front rise or rear drop only as needed to frame the building. Make absolute sure both front and rear standards are parallel and not out of alignment as out of parallel alignment will cause out of focus areas and stopping down the aperture more is not the proper cure.

    If the building is in sharp focus with the lens wide open aperture, the image will be good at f16 or f22.


    Focus as noted by others about 1/2 deep or similar on the building with the 120mm SA full aperture. DO NOT STOP DOWN any more than needed this will reduce definition. Start at f16 and no more than f32, ideally f22 for this SA as this the performance design center of the SA. Meter and adjust shutter speed to match the film exposure needs.




    Bernice



    Quote Originally Posted by ibabcock View Post
    Thank you all and I should have known better than to tilt the front. I understand Peter's comment about focusing 1/2 way "deep" into the awning to get both the bricks and the awning fronts in focus, but what about the fact that the top is so far away? Even though it is within the plane of focus (of the building face) it is still farther away and so this must be considered, right? I think I saw this in the ground glass at wide open that the top was very much out of focus (with all standards vertical). I focused at a point about 1/2 way up the building for this reason. Do you experienced guys ever do some kind of depth of field calculation to ensure you're using a sufficient aperture? What I'm getting at is does my f/32 sound sufficient? I will go back there and try f/45 and f/64 regardless but it would be interesting to know how one decides what aperture to use in cases when you can't get a good view of all of them in the ground glass (because things are so dim).

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    Corran's Avatar
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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    Quote Originally Posted by ibabcock View Post
    I think I saw this in the ground glass at wide open that the top was very much out of focus (with all standards vertical).
    If your standards were well and truly parallel, and the top was "very much out of focus," you might indeed have a lens problem. The periphery might be slightly soft wide-open but if it's really blurry due to serious defocus (rack in and out and see if it gets sharp at a different point) then your lens has an issue. As Mark said, modern lenses have good flat-field performance.
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    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: critique please, newbie- am I asking too much of this lens Schneider Super Angulo

    One thing I found with my schneider super angulon 90mm f/5.6 is the rear element is large and that limits the amount of rise/fall/shift before softening then vignetting so that could be part of it. Stopping down too much you can run into diffraction effects. For focusing view camera see this

    http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/FVC161.pdf

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