Ever felt in the minority?

[DG 3313]

I was in Colorado for Christmas last year and we took a trip to Estes Park for the day. My friend took a quite nice photo of the Rockies in evening light that was quickly edited for color,saturation and drastically cropped. I was standing behind my Toyo 4x5. He knew it would be days before I even developed the film. He showed me the photo and commented about how good and quick it was. I asked him to make me a print to hang over the mantel.............yeah....no.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

That's different than saying you categorically reject digital.

I'm in the minority in many aspects of my life. I am not bothered by the feeling. I'm perhaps in the minority here because I shoot B&W film and don't use a system of exposure but rather an incident meter. Works fine for snow.

I mean I categorically reject the idea that the zone system does not apply to digital work, not I categorically reject digital.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I was in Colorado for Christmas last year and we took a trip to Estes Park for the day. My friend took a quite nice photo of the Rockies in evening light that was quickly edited for color,saturation and drastically cropped. I was standing behind my Toyo 4x5. He knew it would be days before I even developed the film. He showed me the photo and commented about how good and quick it was. I asked him to make me a print to hang over the mantel.............yeah....no.

My friends also comment on how long it takes me to setup, compose, focus and finally take the picture. By the time I take one or two, they have been pacing around ready to leave. It was so bad at one point one of them said when asked to go to another area, sure as long as you don't bring that damned camera.

Also commented that when he went on workshops with Michael Reich an that he would have got upset with me because I take my time photographing a scene. He said he shows up, points camera takes picture and moves on. One thing I notice is impatience of digital only photographers. When I shoot digital, it is an easy trap to fall into though I admit.

[jp]

I mean I categorically reject the idea that the zone system does not apply to digital work, not I categorically reject digital.

Thanks for the clarification. Plenty of curmudgeons reject digital.

[Jim Noel]

[QUOTE=jnanian;1465629]sorry to ask, but do you use the zone system when you expose chromes or paper negatives
or if you shoot WP ... with tintypes/ ambrotypes?


I do, or have done all of these and more. There are only a few of the old processes (alternative) I don't utilize from time to time. I utilize the Zone System for all in camera exposures making allowances for emulsion speed, scale, etc.
I guess I am old fashioned since I have been doing LF photograph since the middle 1930's.
I do not use electronic imaging (digital) because although I have worked with some of the premier workers in the field, I have never found it to equal work produced from film or plates. A few years ago I taught a workshop with one of the 2 or 3 best in the field of digital imaging. When asked if he could produce images like mine his answer was,"If you want to make images like Jim you have to use the same methods he does."

[bieber]

But exposing to the right does produce optimal images on a digital medium. It's a way of compensating for the fact that while we think of exposure in terms of stops, the medium used to store a digital exposure is linear and therefore the amount of dynamic range available to you drops by half with every stop you go down from the right edge of the histogram. Situating the brightest part of your scene on the right side of the histogram, therefore, allows you to capture the most possible data about your subject vs. leaving that information-dense right edge empty.

I think the better question is why, if your friends are producing images they're happy with, you're so intent that they should refrain from using the current state of the art in technique. The zone system was new once too, do you suppose you would have been chided by older photographers for using it back then, even as it helped you make art you were happy with?

[John Olsen]

Any time that I find myself not in the minority it's a cause for reflection. What we have learned from the zone system for film is helpful for setting up digital shots where we manipulate lighting ratios, no matter what medium.

[jnantz]

I tend to use whatever tool wil work and parts there of. Even though the zone system isn't designed arou d anything but a negative bw image, there are elements that work witb slide film, etc. For example, i look at a scen, and decide what I want to have detal, meter it then either shoot or decrease/incrwase exposure to place it where I want. For example snow if you just meter and shoot it comes out gray. So I meter then increase exposure time 1 or 2 stops. The zone system way of thinking helps me. And since I am going to print most of my images either by scanning developing in PS or LR and then print or in a traditional darkroom I think about my scenen and how I kneed to expose tk achieve my vision for the he final pri ted image thru the method I choose.

I find he zone system and parts of itand other methods relevant for not only film, but digital capture as well. I use all formats available, but there is a certain satisfaction from making an image that involves the old ways.

thanks, you never know until you ask
cause as i said, i have found the ZS to be
useless for anything i am doing ( LF CN, BW diapositive, and sensor stuff )
... but then again i don't consider looking at the scene and deciding
what i want to photograph part of the ZS i just consider
that to be part of reading the scene .. IDK, maybe i am using some
version of the ZS intuitively / without thinking about it ...

John, you’re a hoot! I can’t imagine trying to apply the zone system to wet plate collodion work. Most days I’m grateful that an image appears on the plate at all!

thanks paul! yeah i was kind of half joking when i was wondering about WP work
but then again, you never know, some folks might have figured out some sort of
ZS work around, to work with the 1 stop latitude you know, a speical developer made from
cane sugar harvested at a certain time of year from a certain field found on a certain island
sprinkled in after the first 3 seconds of development
i know i haven't figured out a meaningful use for the ZS, but then again, compared to some im a hack ...

[Mark Sawyer]

There's a slight bit of a difference between wet plates over-exposed/under-developed and those "properly" exposed and developed, so I guess you could say there's a zone system effect at work there. (Mind you, one can't over-develop wet plate without the image getting chalky. Wet plate always involved tap-dancing on the edge of disaster.)

On film, I learned the Zone System with some discipline when I worked for the NPS and had access to a densitometer. Years later, after getting into compensating/stand developing, everything changed, and while I didn't do the math, it still informed my decisions.

The Zone System is really pretty simple, like changing the time/temperature variations in cooking. (Puffy pastries? Hot and fast! Smoked salmon? low and slow.) Low contrast/flat lighting? under-expose, over-develop for a stronger negative. Harsh light, high contrast? Over-expose, under-develop for a mellower negative. Development time controls contrast, exposure controls density. The real trick is, for most people in most situations, it's normal exposure, normal development, and trying too hard with the Zone System just gets you in trouble...

[cowanw]

I think a lot of people conflate the Zone system with routine metering and exposure decisions.