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Thread: Pyro and Hypam fix?

  1. #11

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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim V View Post
    Used the Hypam today. Not sure yet, but on quick inspection it seems that the base might not have as much stain with the Hypam as with the TF4. They might dry down to match though, so until then I'll reserve judgement...
    You don't want the base stain anyway. Overall stain just reduces contrast in the shadows. Proportional staining is best. So compare the highlights on the negatives from different fixers. The one with the least base stain but adequate image stain is the one you want.

    FWIW, I've been using Ilford Hypam and Rapid Fixer with my PMK negs for years and years. The stain is just fine.

    Best,

    Doremus

  2. #12
    Kirk Gittings's Avatar
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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    "4. The use of an alkaline fixer is recommended. Kodak and Ilford Rapid-Fix work fine, as does Formulary TF-4. I use the TF-3 formula described in Anchell and Troop’s The Film Developing Cookbook."

    According to Sandy King, who IMHO is the leading authority on Pyro Developers.

    If you haven't read this, you should. https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html
    Thanks,
    Kirk

    at age 73:
    "The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
    But I have promises to keep,
    And miles to go before I sleep,
    And miles to go before I sleep"

  3. #13

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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Dried down hypam and tf4 look exactly the same ����

  4. #14
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by angusparker View Post
    I’ve found my stain from Pyrocat HD did get washed out by RapidFix but TF4 works a charm...
    With or without Part B? I leave it out since it is not needed. It is a strong acid (Sulphuric acid), so might be an issue.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  5. #15
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Many times I am utterly amazed at the threads that gain traction and spring to life on any forum, converesely start a thread about image Concept and Content and we get Crickets. Interesting to note my good friend JB Harlin has an article about Pyro Stain where he takes a piece of panchromatic film processed to completion with PyroCat and onto stop and fix. He then mixes a strong batch of Potassium Ferricyanide and bleaches away the entire SILVER IMAGE, guess what remains, the Pyro Stain, very graphic illustration. Stick to a consistent work flow so we all grow as visual artists !!


    Real photographs are born wet !

    www.PowerOfProcessTips.com

  6. #16

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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Yes, I know what the experiment looks like. I've chromium intensified Pyro developed negatives, and also bleached and fixed them. It's fascinating. I've never been able to get the stain to go away though.

  7. #17

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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Strong selenium toner kills pyro stain. I used to selenium intensify negatives till I switched to PMK. Trying to intensify a PMK negative removes enough image stain to effectively cancel out the effect of the selenium intensification. I find I have to use bleach/redevelop with stained negatives to intensify them now.

    Doremus

  8. #18
    Vaughn's Avatar
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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doremus Scudder View Post
    Strong selenium toner kills pyro stain. I used to selenium intensify negatives till I switched to PMK. Trying to intensify a PMK negative removes enough image stain to effectively cancel out the effect of the selenium intensification. I find I have to use bleach/redevelop with stained negatives to intensify them now.

    Doremus
    Do you think that Selenium could be used judiciously to remove a base stain without significantly removing the image-making stain? I have some 8x10s on Bergger 200 that seemed to have quite a bit of base stain.
    "Landscapes exist in the material world yet soar in the realms of the spirit..." Tsung Ping, 5th Century China

  9. #19

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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaughn View Post
    Do you think that Selenium could be used judiciously to remove a base stain without significantly removing the image-making stain? I have some 8x10s on Bergger 200 that seemed to have quite a bit of base stain.
    Vaughn,

    I'm not really sure exactly what in the selenium toner solution (KRST 1+2 with water) did the stain removing. Nor did I really examine the one or two negatives this happened with to see if the removal was proportional or whatever. Once I realized that the selenium intensification that worked well on negs developed in non-staining developers didn't work on PMK negs, I stopped.

    You'd have to do your own experimenting on a scrap negative (maybe cut one of your 8x10s into strips for testing if you have a neg you can sacrifice to the cause).

    I sympathize with your problem; I've got a bunch of Bergger 200 negs with a lot of base stain as well. I exposed them at EI 125, so that lifts the shadows up out of the base fog somewhat, but still...

    Best,

    Doremus

  10. #20
    Cor's Avatar
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    Re: Pyro and Hypam fix?

    Posted this before~(don't know on LFF though), and it works very good:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I take the liberty of re-posting a post of Burkhardt about removing the
    Pyro stain. I tried it, and it works like a charm,
    Best,
    Cor
    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: Re: POP choices
    Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 21:27:30 +0200
    From: Burkhardt Kiegeland <burkhardt@einsundsein.org>
    Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
    To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
    Here is the Kodak S6 formula for removing of stain:
    Stock solution A:
    Potassium parmanganate 5.2g
    Cold water to make 1l
    The permanganate has to be dissolved completely to avoid spots on the
    neg.
    Stock solution B:
    Cold water 500ml
    Sodium chloride 75g
    Sulfuric acid, conc. 16ml
    Cold water to make 1l
    Caution: Never put the water into the acid, it will boil up!
    Stock solution C:
    Sodium bisulfite,
    1% soilution, this means 1g for 100ml water
    1. Harden the film (2-3min) in a hardener solution like 5-10% glyoxal
    2. Wash for 5min
    3. Bleach in equal amounts of A and B for 3-4min,
    the mix is of short shelf life
    4. After bleaching put negative in solution C until
    all stain is removed
    5. Wash thoroughly
    6. redevelop under 100W bulb in a non staining developer of low alkali
    like D72 dilution 1:2. D76 does no good because of it΄s high sulfite
    and low alkali which would dissolve the silver image
    I did use this formula successful with some overstained Pyro negs a
    couple
    of times.
    Burkhardt Kiegeland
    www.lotusviewcamerea.at


    Chemistry
    Kodak's D72 Formula DEKTOL
    • 750 ml Water
    • 3 g Metol-Elon
    • 45 g Sodium Sulfite Anhydrous
    • 12 g Hydroquinone
    • 80 g Sodium Carbonate 1-Hydrate
    • 2 g Potassium Bromide Anhydrous
    • Water to make 1 liter
    • Use diluted 1:2 at 68°F for 45 seconds to 3 minutes (or longer).

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