Intrepid 8x10 experiences?

[Bob Salomon]

There are no serial numbers, but i totally get your point. Wondered the same thing about their process being complaint-driven rather than proactive.

Also understood from beginning--even as beginner--that Intrepid business model is different from high quality, more expensive models. Appreciate that it lures folks like me, unfamiliar with LF, into the possibilities. In my case, also put together a Norma from reading this forum. So experiencing range of approaches.

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But they must have a record of shipments as well as of orders.

[grat]

Would save them a lot of bad press on the forums if they were just upfront about the problem.

Not really. People will always find a reason to complain.

There are plenty of stories of Intrepid stepping up and admitting to problems, and fixing them in later revisions to the camera. That's pretty good for a small company that started as a Kickstarter.

If you compare the stories of Intrepid's customer service to Gibilleni's, for instance (I own neither), it's like they're two separate worlds.

[Exploring Large Format]

But they must have a record of shipments as well as of orders.

Agreed.

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[Bob Salomon]

Not really. People will always find a reason to complain.

There are plenty of stories of Intrepid stepping up and admitting to problems, and fixing them in later revisions to the camera. That's pretty good for a small company that started as a Kickstarter.

If you compare the stories of Intrepid's customer service to Gibilleni's, for instance (I own neither), it's like they're two separate worlds.

Complaining is one thing, maybe they feel it’s too cumbersome, too heavy, controls on the wrong side, too light, etc.. but this is a case of them being defective. And that’s a different story!

As many of you know, we were the Linhof distributor. When they released the Technika 2000 an option for it was an IR focusing single window era Ge finder viewfinder that could be coupled to several lenses up to 360mm. It was a real game changer. Until the factory discovered that it could not focus on certai patterns; picket fences receding in a scene, herringbone tweed materials, etc.. the factory recalled all of them. We had to recall and refund the money paid for all customers that bought one in the USA. We only had a couple of complaints but the factory was proactive.
When the TechniKardan was introduced the first shipment had a light leak where the bellows attached to the front standard. Turned out that the first handful made were assembled without a needed rubber spacer. Again we and the factory had to track them down and fix them even though there were only a couple of complaints.
A responsible manufacturer can’t just sit back and ignore problems.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Had you registered your camera with the factory?

Seems that, just like a car manufacturer, then when the factory becomes aware of a serious problem, they should notify registered owners of the problem and their cure. Would save them a lot of bad press on the forums if they were just upfront about the problem.

Do Intrepids have serial numbers?

[Bob Salomon]

Do Intrepids have serial numbers?

Apparently not, but they must know who bought them.

[Kiwi7475]

Complaining is one thing, maybe they feel it’s too cumbersome, too heavy, controls on the wrong side, too light, etc.. but this is a case of them being defective. And that’s a different story!

As many of you know, we were the Linhof distributor. When they released the Technika 2000 an option for it was an IR focusing single window era Ge finder viewfinder that could be coupled to several lenses up to 360mm. It was a real game changer. Until the factory discovered that it could not focus on certai patterns; picket fences receding in a scene, herringbone tweed materials, etc.. the factory recalled all of them. We had to recall and refund the money paid for all customers that bought one in the USA. We only had a couple of complaints but the factory was proactive.
When the TechniKardan was introduced the first shipment had a light leak where the bellows attached to the front standard. Turned out that the first handful made were assembled without a needed rubber spacer. Again we and the factory had to track them down and fix them even though there were only a couple of complaints.
A responsible manufacturer can’t just sit back and ignore problems.

Not defending them but I think it takes a company of a certain scale to be able to do that. I don’t think they’re in that ballgame. And also it’s a question of reputation, and how to maintain it within what’s feasible or what makes sense economically.

We all know aircraft manufacturers make decisions to not recall/not be upfront about issues in their aircraft models based on risk assessments and whether absorbing litigations is cheaper than acknowledging and trickling down a fix through all the aircrafts of that model that have the issue. That’s trading (potential) lives for $. This is just one example.

Truth is, if you want that “honesty”, because there is always going to be something to fix, then that cost of recalling/fixing is ultimately estimated and added to the price of the unit. A model based on providing individual fixes for those who complain is cheaper than addressing all of them upfront, so there will be a difference in the final price to the consumer based on which approach a company takes. Usually there’s thresholds defined that will trigger recalls and others that will not, again depending on the sensitivity of the company to the perceived reputation (ultimately affecting stakeholders earnings) and the cost/risk analysis.

[Bob Salomon]

Not defending them but I think it takes a company of a certain scale to be able to do that. I don’t think they’re in that ballgame. And also it’s a question of reputation, and how to maintain it within what’s feasible or what makes sense economically.

We all know aircraft manufacturers make decisions to not recall/not be upfront about issues in their aircraft models based on risk assessments and whether absorbing litigations is cheaper than acknowledging and trickling down a fix through all the aircrafts of that model that have the issue. That’s trading (potential) lives for $. This is just one example.

Truth is, if you want that “honesty”, because there is always going to be something to fix, then that cost of recalling/fixing is ultimately estimated and added to the price of the unit. A model based on providing individual fixes for those who complain is cheaper than addressing all of them upfront, so there will be a difference in the final price to the consumer based on which approach a company takes. Usually there’s thresholds defined that will trigger recalls and others that will not, again depending on the sensitivity of the company to the perceived reputation (ultimately affecting stakeholders earnings) and the cost/risk analysis.

So, you think it is fine for them to be gambling at their current and future customer’s expense?

If they are so immature in their QC they should be giving them away to their “testers” as that is what they are using paying customers for.

[Kiwi7475]

So, you think it is fine for them to be gambling at their current and future customer’s expense?

If they are so immature in their QC they should be giving them away to their “testers” as that is what they are using paying customers for.

I don’t know that it’s fine. It’s a difficult question.

For me it’s not fine and a big deterrent for me to purchase their product again (I have one of their 4x5 sitting unused). This is because I can’t work with a product that “almost works” but “doesn’t really” and reminds me every so often of its limitations and issues. And because I can afford something that I consider superior (significantly more expensive) and doesn’t have these issues.

Others may be more willing to accept the trade off because of the combination of low cost and weight. Let’s be honest, when I look up the price of a new Linhof master technical 3000, my jaw drops to the floor. I’m sure it’s problem free and a precision machine crafted to very high standards, but I wouldn’t (couldn’t) spend $12k on one.

Then they also supplement their shortcomings with a good service where they respond quickly and offer to send you a new part, etc. at no cost. That pacifies a lot of people.

Yes we are all testers in this approach, some will be willing to play the game others won’t. But it’s certainly working for them so it appears to be financially viable.

[Bob Salomon]

I don’t know that it’s fine. It’s a difficult question.

For me it’s not fine and a big deterrent for me to purchase their product again (I have one of their 4x5 sitting unused). This is because I can’t work with a product that “almost works” but “doesn’t really” and reminds me every so often of its limitations and issues. And because I can afford something that I consider superior (significantly more expensive) and doesn’t have these issues.

Others may be more willing to accept the trade off because of the combination of low cost and weight. Let’s be honest, when I look up the price of a new Linhof master technical 3000, my jaw drops to the floor. I’m sure it’s problem free and a precision machine crafted to very high standards, but I wouldn’t (couldn’t) spend $12k on one.

Then they also supplement their shortcomings with a good service where they respond quickly and offer to send you a new part, etc. at no cost. That pacifies a lot of people.

Yes we are all testers in this approach, some will be willing to play the game others won’t. But it’s certainly working for them so it appears to be financially viable.

Not just Linhof, look at,a,Wista.