Intrepid - Communication & Delivery

[pepeguitarra]

I am one of the supporters of Intrepid and one of the most constructive critics too. I provide feed back on all the problems I have had (several of them mostly related to lack of quality control). I think they have a small force and younger kids that may not have the experience many old makers have. I support them because it is the only NEW effort to maintain film and LF alive. They have succeeded on getting a large number of youngster into LF. I supported knowing what I was going to get into. Honestly, I expected a lot worst (the first edition of the 4x5 was really crude, but it works). I saw the first edition of the 8x10 and was not happy, I could see it lacked some engineering. However, the second version of the 8x10 is a lot better and stable. I got mine with several quality control problems (mostly gluing the bellows not really aligned, which includes a torque to maintain the front standard straight, but it works), other things I could easily fix with my small tools (after all, I am a wood worker), but those who dont have the woodworking experience are in trouble. The intrepid is just one of the cameras I have in my arsenal, although, they are the ones I use when I have to walk long ways, or go places and have to pack them with my luggage. They do the job.

[aaronnate]

I seriously considered an intrepid camera but dropped the idea because of this problem: long than necessary wait times, quality control issues, etc. But I have a question, are these problems because of the crowdfunding mentality---get an idea, make the item, get people worked up over your new product and when you get the funding then, and only then, think about the business plan and logistics or just the way small businesses expect to run these days?

I run a business. You can be certain that I would not still be in business if I ran it this way. Before you say this is not their day job, neither is the business I run.

[Kiwi7475]

I seriously considered an intrepid camera but dropped the idea because of this problem: long than necessary wait times, quality control issues, etc. But I have a question, are these problems because of the crowdfunding mentality---get an idea, make the item, get people worked up over your new product and when you get the funding then, and only then, think about the business plan and logistics or just the way small businesses expect to run these days?

I run a business. You can be certain that I would not still be in business if I ran it this way. Before you say this is not their day job, neither is the business I run.

I think part of the answer is that somehow they fit a niche position because of the price point for a new item, in combination with something that seems to be like a small resurgence of LF. I am thinking this is true because if you look on eBay the prices of “basic” lenses (lenses that would nominally be your normal or first lens) has been steadily increasing and the market is not small. Therefore there must be an steady stream of newcomers into LF happening. I don’t know whether it’s there to stay or if it’s a fad or whatever, but I think that’s why they’re in business. That and most reviews online are not bad or scary (there’s no reason they should be) other than the waiting time and slow response (ok, some QA issues which de facto you waive in your mind because of the price point). And so you can trade time for money (literally) and get on LF cheaply.
In other words it’s a solid Low Touch business model hinging on a perhaps a “retro” product that still interests some generations.

[pepeguitarra]

I think their expectation when running the first KickStarter project were exceeded so much, that they (meaning HE, Max) has not been able to handle the business part of the company. I would hire someone to manage the place if he choses to stay making the product, it is hard to do both, especially if you are not an experienced manager.

[Bob Salomon]

I think their expectation when running the first KickStarter project were exceeded so much, that they (meaning HE, Max) has not been able to handle the business part of the company. I would hire someone to manage the place if he choses to stay making the product, it is hard to do both, especially if you are not an experienced manager.

Or an experienced manufacturer!

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

I recently saw a large number of LF images posted by Intrepid from users of their cameras. None of them had I seen here, on other forums, on Facebook groups, or elsewhere. I don't doubt that Intrepid's communication and delivery times could be improved, but it seems like they have the classic problem of a "silent majority" being perfectly happy with the camera and using it just fine, while the vocal minority complain about the (justified) problems, giving a skewed view of the number of issues in manufacture.

So I could be wrong, but it seems there's a huge number of happy Intrepid users. I almost bought one again recently when I saw a screaming deal on a used camera, but I hesitated and it was gone. If I hadn't already owned a Chamonix for years before the Intrepid appeared, I would probably have bought one. So I have no direct experience, but I sure am seeing a lot of fine photos made with the Intrepid both from well-established LF photographers and not.

Hello,

to imply, that there would be a "silent majority" that is satisfied only because you can count the opinions against the Intrepids, is - a classical fallacy.

Even if there are successful applications.

Perhaps successful applications were realized despite of problems with the camera? You have to ask whether successful photographers would buy the camera again.

It seems to me that there are more users complaining than praising.

BTW: De Gaulle mentioned the "silent majority" in 1968, when french citizens opposed the the government. One year later he resigned. Sarkozy is still searching this majority today.

Why could a "silent majority" be silent?

Perhaps people are ashamed because they think that the majority would be working successfully with the camera, given the few loud speaking influencers on Youtube who brought them close to the large format process?

Perhaps they think that spending too much time for such a thing would not be worth the effort, so they do not even complain about?

Perhaps people do not scan their ruined pictures and publish them in the web?

Perhaps they're frustrated and they have smashed the construction against a wall? Then there would be no evidence any more to publish in the web ...

Perhaps they have sent the camera back and now they are still waiting for MK4 - so it is too early to complain (why did Intrepid changed the design between MK3 and MK4 with "automatic upgrade", that means unsolicited upgrades for customers? Apparently they experienced that there were too much problems with MK3)?

Perhaps they only wanted to try and the saw that large format has a steep learning curve and now they are waiting until they have enough time to begin with the project etc etc

Postulating a "silent majority" is propaganda, imho. As long as somebody does not express himself, he is not existent in the vast variety of opinions.

Regards

[Max Grew]

Hello Everyone, thought I would chime in on this thread as there are a few points coming up that I would like to say something about.

"It's not their day jobs"

Firstly there seems to be a slight misunderstanding about the scale of Intrepid Camera and why we have lead times. This is the day job of all 10 of us, the company has grown considerably since it started in a garage in 2014. Whilst I (Max) am still managing the company over all, I have two very talented people below me managing production and communication. We have shipped over 4000 Cameras all around the world. The reason that we have a lead time is that even with 7 people working on production we can only just keep up with demand. In the last 4 months we have had orders for 470 Cameras and shipped even more. On average we meet the lead time for our 4x5 cameras and we are currently behind the lead time for 8x10s, for which I am very sorry to keep people waiting. We have been in touch with a lot of people who are waiting but if you didn't get an email from us please just quickly let us know (hello@theintrepidcamera.co.uk) so that we can update you.

"You could add this, this and this feature."

Unfortunately we can't design the perfect camera for everyone, we keep things simple, light weight and use high quality materials, the cameras are predominantly made from High Quality Birch Ply (not to be confused with Ply Wood you get in the USA) Aluminium and the latest cameras feature steel linear guides for focusing, something that you only get on much more expensive cameras. There is a good preview video of the new camera here

"Issues with Quality Control"

This is a fair comment, we have had a few issues with some cameras. In the scale of how many Intrepid cameras we have shipped though, it is low. We are always happy to help out with any issues and will get you up and running as soon as possible. Our warranty on all cameras is very fair, if anything goes wrong with the camera, even if you drop it off a cliff we will fix it for free, we just ask you to cover postage if it was something that you broke yourself. Unfortunately this doesn't cover glass, but if you get in touch we can offer replacements.

Communication

In the past we have had some communication issues, this came from a lack of staff and very high demand. I would say that communication is now very good at Intrepid, if anyone has any recent issues with our communication please let me know so we can rectify it. The main email we get is about production updates, we are working on a part of the website where you will soon be able to track the production of your camera directly.

Releasing new models of the camera

Since Intrepid began we have released a new model of the 4x5 on average every 15 months, the 8x10 every 18 months. This is a fairly standard product cycle and the reason we do it is because the community, whom we are very involved with, send us a lot of feedback. Because we have our own factory and designers we can quickly implement this feedback into our cameras. It is a process very linked with customers and people tend to be very happy with it. We offer people free upgrades to new models, trade-ins and new upgraded components where we can. That being said, we have put a design freeze on the current cameras so that we can focus on production, the 4x5 MK4 and 8x10 MK2 are considerable upgrades and will be around for much longer than previous models.

"The Silent Majority"

This one is fairly easy to answer, they are not really very silent, they are just not on this forum. If you would like to see other peoples work with Intrepid Cameras I would recommend our Blog, whilst not everyone we feature uses an Intrepid Camera it is a great place to see what people in the community are up to, saying that though Jason Lee and Alec Soth both now have an Intrepid 4x5 and 8x10 respectively and I am looking forward to their feedback. The majority however are on Instagram, We regularly feature photographers and it is brilliant to see the wide range of work they are producing. There are hundreds of happy Intrepid Camera users on instagram, best place to find them is on our tagged photos or by searching #intrepidcamera our Instagram account is here.

In Conclusion, yes we have made some mistakes in the past for which I am sorry, growing pains are standard and our growth has been fairly rapid. We are putting in a lot of work to grow large format and I hope you will be reassured that so many people are discovering it, even though I'm sure some of you will just be concerned about lens prices. If any of you ever find yourselves in Brighton please do come to the factory and I will put the kettle on.

Best, Max

[Tin Can]

Thank you!

[munz6869]

Just to be a positive counterpoint: I have a 4x5" mk1 and an 8x10" mk1 and they're both 'fine'! Not exactly my Wista, but that's not the point of them - I can make a super picture when my brain and the world gel appropriately, and they're as light as can be! No build issues other than I'd rather have mk4/2 but these have their clunky charm too...

Marc!

[shoshin]

Communication

In the past we have had some communication issues, this came from a lack of staff and very high demand. I would say that communication is now very good at Intrepid, if anyone has any recent issues with our communication please let me know so we can rectify it. The main email we get is about production updates, we are working on a part of the website where you will soon be able to track the production of your camera directly.

Dear Max,

what is you understanding of "in the past"? I have ordered my 8x10 on January 31th with "8 weeks lead time". Since then none of my mails has been answered. I don't even have any confirmation for my order, despite this mass mail from the beginning of april.

"Production is coming along really well now despite some manufacturing delays early on. Your camera will be shipping in the first batch towards the end of April so look out for the tracking number and dispatch email."

Well now it's may and there was no dispatch mail and no tracking number and no camera and no communication about this issue at all.