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Thread: Edward Weston

  1. #11
    tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Edward Weston

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    Edward Weston was known to have used a pyro staining developer. Pyro staining developers have a higher effective density range when printing with platinum, or other UV sensitive processes, than when printing with silver. He writes about this in the the Daybooks from the period of his stay in Mexico.
    Sandy
    Then why overdevelop them until they were "bulletproof?"

    Thomas

  2. #12

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    Re: Edward Weston

    Quote Originally Posted by tgtaylor View Post
    Then why overdevelop them until they were "bulletproof?"

    Thomas
    Longer developing time with pyro developers increases the effective contrast between silver and UV sensitive processes, which means that if you wanted to make a print on a #2 silver paper, AND a platinum print from the same negative, it would be perfectly logical to develop the negative for a long time in order to increase the contrast for platinum. Stain density is proportional to silver density. Both increase with time of development, but the effective log density increase is greater with stain density than silver density. And while I have never actually seen any of Weston's negatives, I have read that many of his negatives are described as "bulletproof" in appearance, some requiring exposures of three hours or more.

    His film may also have a lot of B+F, which would also have increase more with development in a Pyro staining developer.


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  3. #13
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    Re: Edward Weston

    It is clear that a Pyro processed negative does produce a dual purpose negative in conventional exposure and development wisdom. However, with Multi-Contrast papers essentially all that is available today optimum negative design for use with those MC papers should be decidedly different than traditional Zone System methods to maximize the abilities of those current MC papers.


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  4. #14
    Steven Ruttenberg's Avatar
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    Re: Edward Weston

    I find it amazing how much knowledge these old time photographers have. They are the equivalent of a raw converter in the flesh and do things you can't even come close to on digital. I wish I could go back 40 years in time and start over and be focused on photography and film the way these guys were. And travel the country photographing. Well, that is now my plan when kids are grown and I no longer have to report for work.

    I am getting ready to try 2-bath, and slimt on some negatives. SLIMT for color and black and white and 2 bath for black and white only. I exposed for the darkest shadows to be zone v. In some cases I also used a gnd to help compress the sky some. But maybe film is even better in that regard than digital and if developed properly, I can pull in the highlights to be very usable.

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  5. #15
    tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Edward Weston

    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    Longer developing time with pyro developers increases the effective contrast between silver and UV sensitive processes, which means that if you wanted to make a print on a #2 silver paper, AND a platinum print from the same negative, it would be perfectly logical to develop the negative for a long time in order to increase the contrast for platinum. Stain density is proportional to silver density. Both increase with time of development, but the effective log density increase is greater with stain density than silver density. And while I have never actually seen any of Weston's negatives, I have read that many of his negatives are described as "bulletproof" in appearance, some requiring exposures of three hours or more.

    His film may also have a lot of B+F, which would also have increase more with development in a Pyro staining developer.


    Sandy
    So what you are saying is that you can overdevelop the negative until its contrast is "bulletproof" for printing in various alternative processes such as salt, platinum, kallitype, etc., but you would still be able to print that negative as a silver gelatin on a grade 2 paper by increasing the exposure time on the paper. If that is the case then I don't see the benefit of pyro over, say, Xtol since both developers would require overdeveloping the negative for a platinum print and extending the exposure on the paper for the silver print. Note: Some films, such as Fuji Acros, are capable of achieving a higher density depending of the developing time than other films such as Ilford Delta.

    Thomas

  6. #16
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Edward Weston

    Higher density does not equate to higher contrast. T-grain films like Delta and esp TMax are capable of higher contrast gradiants than ACROS, while at the same time, having less redundant base stain or otherwise fbf. None of these have quite the range of good ole Super-XX. I won't comment on "bulletproof". I've heard of nitrate film base, acetate, and polyester, but not Kevlar film base.

  7. #17

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    Re: Edward Weston

    I learned E.W.'s ABC pyro formula from Cole years ago...using the very contact frame and dodging tools which Edward had used. And yes...Super XX with ABC was such a great combo - printed up real nice on the old Portriga #1, with a weak bare bulb - and I remain convinced that there is something about the multi directionality of light emitted from a bare bulb which makes it unique from all other light sources, especially when contact printing through a well executed, silver-rich pyro negative!

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