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Thread: Unusual LF Canon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

  1. #1

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    Unusual LF Canon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Hello everyone,

    First a little background. I am currently experimenting with a Canon Lide 35 Scanner that I converted to a LF scanner camera.

    (in short, the CIS acts like a large 8x10 sensor and uses a 'lens' as a focus and scans the image)

    Here is a related link:

    Project information

    http://makezine.com/projects/deluxe-scanner-camera/

    Here is what the 'camera' looks like

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here are a few "photos" I took.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have spent as much a great deal this week reading about lenses and while learning a lot I definitely need a more direct approach to understand more.

    At the moment I am . . . cobbling together parts to replace the boxes and magnifying glass I am currently using. I will (likely) get an enlarger bellows and make or convert a monorail to use with it.

    My inquiry deals with lenses.

    If possible I would like suggestions for lenses for this project.

    I'd like only to spend at most $150 so I assume all modern lenses are ruled out.

    Also, I would be interested in any suggestion for any reason. Since my LF camera is basically digital and I won't be wasting film.

    I'd like to use all the scanning space so large coverage lenses (5x7-8x10) would be nice but since i'd like to experiment with landscapes, portraits, etc anything is fine.

    I was looking through process and enlarger lenses (since they are quite cheap) but i'd be interested in any cool lens or anything you found had an interesting effect or look.


    anyway,

    Here are a few lenses I was thinking to experiment with.

    FUJINON-XEROX LENS 1:4.5 F=24 cm

    Schneider Kreuznach Xenar 24cm F4.5

    SCHNEIDER KREUZNACH Componon 1:5.6 210mm

    INDUSTAR-11M 300mm f9


    thank you for all your help I would really appreciate it.

    -milo

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2017
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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Great stuff. Can't help you much with those lenses, but from what I get of the description for making this camera, I would look for something not too wide. There is a groove in which those sensors lie.

    Got an old Lide scanner somewhere and a RPi also somewhere. Might be another project...
    Expert in non-working solutions.

  3. #3

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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc View Post
    Great stuff. Can't help you much with those lenses, but from what I get of the description for making this camera, I would look for something not too wide. There is a groove in which those sensors lie.

    Got an old Lide scanner somewhere and a RPi also somewhere. Might be another project...

    Thank you for the advice - Totally go for it! - Please feel to ask any questions about prepping the scanner. I kinda bumbmled my way through it but got it working.

    anyway,

    I'll would like to experiment what the limits and . . . quirks of the scanner are.

    I was lucky today and saw that the school I work for (I'm a teacher in Japan) was tossing out two slide projectors and an overhead projector.

    I can get two lenses, an enlarging glass and a fresnel!


    As for lenses any suggestions would be nice. I've been compiling information on specifics to get an idea of what to expect from certain optics.

    Info like: Dallmeyer Pentac lenes are good for a 'soft' look. Process and enlarging lenses are good for direct shoots. Componar and some Beseler lenes are not worth it since they only have 3 elements. APO or apochromat lenses are highly corrected so very sharp. Using 210mm 5.6 lenses are portrait lenses.

    Thins like that.

  4. #4

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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    For those interested - here are a few notes about the pictures.

    1. They are screen shots since the actual images are quite big.
    2. I haven't been able to resolve the 'shadow' on the edge of the frame. It is likely caused by reflections inside the scanner - likely the scanner rail.

    Picture 1 - The strangeness in from the people moving. It's an interesting aspect of the scanner as it takes 55 seconds to scan at 300dpi and well people move.

    Picture 2 - The strangeness, (White lines) is from people walking by and being scanned at a fraction of a second.

    Picture 3 - 1200dpi scan that took 7 minutes to complete. The image is over 100mb.

  5. #5

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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markham941 View Post
    1. They are screen shots since the actual images are quite big.
    2. I haven't been able to resolve the 'shadow' on the edge of the frame. It is likely caused by reflections inside the scanner - likely the scanner rail.
    1: get a program that let you resize your "photo". Something simple as Irfanview will let you scale them to a size that can be put on the site. I bet even Paint vcan do that.

    2: I'm looking at you photo with the sop front. From the distortion of the people I guess the camera is scanning from left to right (or the other way round). I fear it can be vignetting. Look at this site, this is what made me put my Lide aside when I got the V700 (you probably have) http://golembewski.awardspace.com/ca...ner/index.html. (it seems to be the same guy from the makezine link)
    Expert in non-working solutions.

  6. #6

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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc View Post
    1: get a program that let you resize your "photo". Something simple as Irfanview will let you scale them to a size that can be put on the site. I bet even Paint vcan do that.

    2: I'm looking at you photo with the sop front. From the distortion of the people I guess the camera is scanning from left to right (or the other way round). I fear it can be vignetting. Look at this site, this is what made me put my Lide aside when I got the V700 (you probably have) http://golembewski.awardspace.com/ca...ner/index.html. (it seems to be the same guy from the makezine link)

    1. Thanks for the suggestions!

    I was just lazy and decided to take screenshots. Since I'm just testing I don't mind the large file size on some photos. I actually will likely use a RAM disk to view them as they bog down my laptop when I quickly zoom in and out to look at the details.

    VueScan, the software I am using, can also scale the image / quality, I just haven't played with the setting to much yet.


    2. I have seen this site. I did a fair amount of testing (without a lens) and I don't think it's vignetting although I wasn't able to rule it out completely. I actually emailed the site owner about the issue.

    Funny enough about the scan directions, since the scanner can be rotated in either orientation, I can get the 'vignetting' on either side. lol.

    Having another lens may clear up if it's a lens issue or a reflection of the chrome rail on the inside. I actually have a second Canon LiDe 35, so I can swap out parts and do some testing. I have been wanting to paint the rail but didn't want to destroy the only working body I had.


    Also, today I scored some FREE optics. (Sure the coverage will be small but I can test them in my camera for my experimenting.

    Kodak Ektanar zoom projection lens 4 - 6 inches (From a carousel 35mm projector)

    Cabin F=100-150mm 1:3.5 (From a 35mm slide projector)

    The lens from an overhead projector

    A fresnel lens from the same overhead projector. (Will work nice as a cheap ground glass)

  7. #7

    Join Date
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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Hi
    Considering i made 4 of these, i can provide some info.
    1. look for process lens, they cost nothing. I payed ~10eur on a pair of eskofot ultragon lenses ( 150 f8 and 210 f8 ), then another ~120 eur for 3 Zeiss process lenses ( 240, 360, 420 all f8 ).
    2. Get rid of the led light : remove the long plastic diffuser and either paint it with black nail polish, or just remove it with a wire cutter, scanner dosn`t mind ; seems you already done that.
    3. LIDE scanners > 100 ( lide 110, lide 220 ) have a much better mechanical side ( rack and pinion vs wire ) for moving. This will remove SOME of the horizontal striping. You can never fully remove the striping it causes.

    4. The best thing you can do is modify the scanning assembly. With some care ( i can explain in better detail if needed ), you can remove the actual cis sensor and move it to the top layer of the scanning assembly.
    Currently it resided underneath some linear lenses ( done to increase sharpness when scanning flat things ). After moving it to the top layer ( under the glass ), you can paint the green pcb it resides on black ( it will cause reflections with the glass on top ).
    This will remove ALL vignetting, and you can scan the whole 8x10 ( actually A4 size ).

    5. Get a UV/IR cut filter. The CIS sensor sees a LOT of UV and some IR. It will clean your photos

    An example of what was done with a modded Lide35, without filter. :
    Click image for larger version. 

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    LaterEdit : it seems that it did not attach at a respectable resolution, you can see it better on my Flickr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/-silviu-/16638183526/

  8. #8

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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by tzava-ro View Post
    Hi
    Considering i made 4 of these, i can provide some info.
    1. look for process lens, they cost nothing. I payed ~10eur on a pair of eskofot ultragon lenses ( 150 f8 and 210 f8 ), then another ~120 eur for 3 Zeiss process lenses ( 240, 360, 420 all f8 ).
    2. Get rid of the led light : remove the long plastic diffuser and either paint it with black nail polish, or just remove it with a wire cutter, scanner dosn`t mind ; seems you already done that.
    3. LIDE scanners > 100 ( lide 110, lide 220 ) have a much better mechanical side ( rack and pinion vs wire ) for moving. This will remove SOME of the horizontal striping. You can never fully remove the striping it causes.

    4. The best thing you can do is modify the scanning assembly. With some care ( i can explain in better detail if needed ), you can remove the actual cis sensor and move it to the top layer of the scanning assembly.
    Currently it resided underneath some linear lenses ( done to increase sharpness when scanning flat things ). After moving it to the top layer ( under the glass ), you can paint the green pcb it resides on black ( it will cause reflections with the glass on top ).
    This will remove ALL vignetting, and you can scan the whole 8x10 ( actually A4 size ).

    5. Get a UV/IR cut filter. The CIS sensor sees a LOT of UV and some IR. It will clean your photos

    An example of what was done with a modded Lide35, without filter. :
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	16638183526_662ce4f62b_o.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	44.5 KB 
ID:	182891

    LaterEdit : it seems that it did not attach at a respectable resolution, you can see it better on my Flickr : https://www.flickr.com/photos/-silviu-/16638183526/
    WOW !!!!

    Thank you!!

    I am in the process now of getting a LiDe 220. Although I just finished grinding and modifying my second LiDe 30 this weekend.

    about number 4


    Yes, please explain if you can. (Any pictures?) What model are you referring to?

    So far I have just don the 'usual' mod and ground the black CIS housing on my LiDe 30.


    About number 5


    Thank you. I was wondering about how much IR and UV light the scanner could see and figured I'd wait when I could focus on it to research more.

    Thanks! This was incredibly helpful.

    Also,
    Do you do any post processing?



    Thanks again!

  9. #9

    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Re: Unusual LF Cannon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Me again ..

    Processing was some levels in photoshop.
    The UV/IR is an issue only when photographing people ( tedious work, 40 seconds exposure ) )
    Can you post a picture of what have you done to the sensor assembly ?

    The sensor assembly is nearly identical on all Lide scanners ( i modified 25,25,90 and 110 ). The only issue is that you have to handle the sensor`s PCB directly, and it is EXTREMELY fragile when not attached to the black plastic piece. Even the slightest bend of the PCB will result in a broken sensor. I broke 4 out of 6 scanners i modified. Once the modding is done, it will be sturdy enough to use.

    Your post gave me some new enthusiasm for this, so i ordered a Lide 110. It should arrive in 2-3 days.
    I will mod it and take pictures. Most probably over a weekend.

    Feel free to PM me about this, as i tend to forget to check the forums.

    You`re welcome,
    Silviu

  10. #10

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    Seattle area, WA
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    Re: Unusual LF Canon LiDe (Scanner) Camera Project Needs Basic Lens Suggestions.

    Results on this thread are fascinating but has anyone figured out how to remove the linear banding those LiDe Scanner modifications always seem to have. Any idea what causes it?

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