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Thread: The comeback of film?

  1. #101

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Film is a tool, just as digital is.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    Please let me explain. I don't care if people use Inkjet and digital, in fact I use both all the time.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Moe View Post
    Unlike some, I don't think one is better than the other.
    Yes, the digital to film debate is over since 10 years ago and was won by digital, but we have to understand what debate was for most, it was a resolving power comparison DSLR vs 35mm film.

    But Digital is a way better tool to allow a pro survive this days, as reality shows, absolutely no doubt. Also better for high ISO. Also much better to spray. A DSLR takes videos.


    Anyway there is no doubt that film still has strong points. This 2018 film still handles better highlights, conserving better glare textures in people's faces, helping to a 3D sensation, for example.

    Another key strength is spectral response. Nikon vs Canon have an slight difference that's difficult to pefectly match in Ps. Many Pros do recognize that Canon is slightly better for human skin and Nikon is slightly better for the rest. This comes from an slightly different spectral response, most Pros today even don't know that it's because of dyes on the pixels...

    A film shooter has an strong avantage, he can replace the sensor of his camera, and the effect is miles away from the Nikon vs Cannon effect.

    There is an entire world between Velvia 50 vs Portra 160. Each is an specialized tool for a certain job. Sure a Ps edition can make wonders, and sure that in many situations spectral specialization matters little, but sometimes Velvia or Portra are ground breaking for a job, blowing miles away the DLSR lack of character. Shaping the image character in Ps it's not the same than shaping it from the medium nature.

    Sometimes I show a shot (https://www.flickr.com/photos/paulbo...125592977@N05/) to my digital friends, speaking about face volumes. First they say that they do that dayly with their DSLRs, then they observe better the image, and then they start grasping their head while saying nothing.




    Let's say that photography is beyond commercial photography, Sally Mann made an artistic career with collodion near a century after collodion was commercially over...

  2. #102
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Nobody "won". That's nonsense. Turtles and crocodiles were around before dinosaurs, which seemed to rule the planet for awhile, but are now extinct.

  3. #103

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Wiley View Post
    Nobody "won". That's nonsense. Turtles and crocodiles were around before dinosaurs, which seemed to rule the planet for awhile, but are now extinct.
    Drew, film has lost the mainstream in a devastating way, digital has been disrruptive. This is a case explained in MBA grades. Kodak and Fuji lost a full sized empire.

    ...but stradivarius are still playing with techniques developed 3 centuries ago, this is still unsurpassed in expression. Opera lovers fall in ectasys with a soprano interpreting Verdi, feeling the nuances of a voice, no auto-tune, just flavours in the squillo, coloratura or divine pianissimo (Caballé). 150 masters playing and a unique soprano floating on it in total comunion. Other things compared may look music for day care centers, that's better for that.

    An artist may only want a hammer to hit a boulder. In that sense film usage only can grow from now, because it makes some people very happy, and additionally it provides a set of aesthetic tools that are (nearly) forbiden in the digital mainstream world.

    The question is if that comeback is to peak in a certain term, and what it will happen from then, Bob Carnie pointed that: https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1473248

  4. #104

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Drew, film has lost the mainstream in a devastating way, digital has been disrruptive. This is a case explained in MBA grades. Kodak and Fuji lost a full sized empire.

    ...but stradivarius are still playing with techniques developed 3 centuries ago, this is still unsurpassed in expression. Opera lovers fall in ectasys with a soprano interpreting Verdi, feeling the nuances of a voice, no auto-tune, just flavours in the squillo, coloratura or divine pianissimo (Caballé). 150 masters playing and a unique soprano floating on it in total comunion. Other things compared may look music for day care centers, that's better for that.

    An artist may only want a hammer to hit a boulder. In that sense film usage only can grow from now, because it makes some people very happy, and additionally it provides a set of aesthetic tools that are (nearly) forbiden in the digital mainstream world.

    The question is if that comeback is to peak in a certain term, and what it will happen from then, Bob Carnie pointed that: https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1473248
    Taking a picture has no relationship to playing a violin or singing. What you use to take or process or print the picture is a tool. You chose the one that works for you. Not on sentiment for what once was, but for what you prefer.

    You neglected to mention that there is still a thriving market for buggy whips! Granted most people have no neead for one, other then maybe as a wall hanging, but if you race trotters then they are part of the culture and the required gear!

  5. #105

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Taking a picture has no relationship to playing a violin or singing. What you use to take or process or print the picture is a tool. You chose the one that works for you. Not on sentiment for what once was, but for what you prefer.
    Some kind of relationship may be there, AA played piano, and he later compared processing to partiture+score.

    I find an analogy:

    Like classic music is still admired and played today, after many centuries, it can happen that classic photography may have practitioners in the future.

    Anyway technically speaking this 2018 film still has some strong points that are unmatched by the new technology, but shooting a digital image is amazingly cheaper and faster...

    Personally I've no doubt about the benefits in the spectral nature and highlight peformance. To me this fully explanis why Disney still is shooting some $200 million cost productions on film while best digital cameras on earth (they have) are resting in a shelf.
    Last edited by Pere Casals; 14-Dec-2018 at 08:29.

  6. #106

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Some kind of relationship may be there, AA played piano, and he later compared processing to partiture+score.

    I find an analogy:

    Like classic music is still admired and played today, after many centuries, it can happen that classic photography may have practitioners in the future.

    Anyway technically speaking this 2018 film still has some strong points that are unmatched by the new technology, but shooting a digital image is amazingly cheaper and faster...

    Personally I've no doubt about the benefits in the spectral nature and highlight peformance. To me this fully explanis why Disney still is shooting some $200 million cost productions on film while best digital cameras on earth (they have) are resting in a shelf.
    Processing isn’t anything like music. It is more like cooking, time and temperature!

  7. #107

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Salomon View Post
    Processing isn’t anything like music. It is more like cooking, time and temperature!
    Sadly we cannot ask Mr Adams what he meant, when speaking about the score.

    Paper development does not require accurate temperature/time development, or at least these are fixed parameters, we develop to completion, you know.

    The complicated thing is this (cooking or score):

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ansel-MAdams-Moonrise-notes.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	50.5 KB 
ID:	185509

    This is for the last version of the Moonrise, 1980. AA worked this print for 4 decades (some 38+ years) until he arrived at this score, or cooking recipe.

  8. #108

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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Sadly we cannot ask Mr Adams what he meant, when speaking about the score.

    Paper development does not require accurate temperature/time development, or at least these are fixed parameters, we develop to completion, you know.

    The complicated thing is this (cooking or score):

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Ansel-MAdams-Moonrise-notes.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	50.5 KB 
ID:	185509

    This is for the last version of the Moonrise, 1980. AA worked this print for 4 decades (some 38+ years) until he arrived at this score, or cooking recipe.
    Why not ask John Sexton what he meant?

  9. #109
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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Yes, the digital to film debate is over since 10 years ago...
    Yet here we are, debating...
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

  10. #110
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: The comeback of film?

    Pere - Stradivarius violins are still sold right down the street from me. Of course, the level of security in that store is like a jewelry store. They aren't going to unlock the display cases for just anyone. In this instance, success is better defined by historic staying power rather than current market success in cumulative dollars and numbers. We might also consider the longevity of the product itself. Many view cameras are operative and prized a century after they were made. But the average consumer of digital devices has already thrown enough electronics gadets, old cell phones, and computer components into landfill or recycling sufficient to build their own plastic and solder equivalent of the Great Pyramid of Cheops. Disposable pretty much defines the whole ethos. What will happen several decades hence is hard to say. But since the planet itself may be fighting for mere survival, I'm not sure I'd want to be around anyway. So for the moment, just enjoy whatever medium you personally prefer.

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