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Thread: Camera Movements?!

  1. #1

    Camera Movements?!

    Just wondering... with regard to tilt/shift/swing movements...
    Is there a camera which provides continuous movement in all dimensions similar to the focus movement we all have?
    I jst wonder how much more pleasure it would be if tilt especially, could be wound back and forth like focus, instead of the sticky method of pushing and pulling standards and clamping.
    I suppose that the most expensive camera does this?

    Dave

  2. #2
    http://www.spiritsofsilver.com tgtaylor's Avatar
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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Rise, shift, and tilt (front & back) are geared on the Toyo Robos but swing is manual. I believe the Sinar P/P2 is fully geared.

    Thomas

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    DG 3313's Avatar
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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Axis tilt is a blessing and it reduces (if not removes) the refocus problem of base tilt cameras. On the Horseman 45L everything is geared except swing and tilt. I am not aware of a camera that is geared for all movements.

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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Tilt/swings on a well balanced F/S + R/S that move smoothly (on a axis tilt camera) are better not geared, as you can watch and wiggle them around to see the effect easily of the standards movements...

    Although it is limited due to bellows draw, WA provision etc, the easiest was the old GVII that made it so easy to do complex movements without refocusing (I still use one for complex movements with normal fl's)...

    Many cameras are stiff to move a little, and the weight of the standards while aiming up/down change the balance of the standards, and base tilt cameras want to fall forward while aiming down...

    Steve K

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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Quote Originally Posted by DG 3313 View Post
    Axis tilt is a blessing and it reduces (if not removes) the refocus problem of base tilt cameras. On the Horseman 45L everything is geared except swing and tilt. I am not aware of a camera that is geared for all movements.
    Since format isn’t specified, all digital view cameras are geared for all direct and indirect movements.

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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Many high-end monorail cameras have extensive geared movements. A few field cameras have limited geared movements, typically front rise/fall. The Wisner Technical Field and Expedition cameras have geared rear axis tilt, and the Pocket Expedition has both front and rear geared axis tilt as well as geared front rise/fall. I've never used any of the Wisners, don't have any experience of how well the gearing works.

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    Thalmees's Avatar
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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Quote Originally Posted by davestephans View Post
    Just wondering... with regard to tilt/shift/swing movements...
    Is there a camera which provides continuous movement in all dimensions similar to the focus movement we all have?
    I jst wonder how much more pleasure it would be if tilt especially, could be wound back and forth like focus, instead of the sticky method of pushing and pulling standards and clamping.
    I suppose that the most expensive camera does this?
    Dave
    Good study Dave. You will not be disappointed, no matter whatever you decide at the end of your search.
    Fixed camera(like SLRs) focussing is a movement on the optical axis of the lens. Extension or retraction plus or minus rearranging elements or group elements of the lens. This type of movement is not the way LF camera focuses.
    Movements of image manipulation, are not performed on the lens per se or its components, usually.
    Instead, the movements are performed on the standards where the lens or film(image) are located perpendicular initially(zeroed). Plus of course, moving the camera/lens system, like tilting SLR, or rotating the system about camera rail, are another options.
    Though more complicated, you have much more options to manipulate image as required, before capturing on film.
    Now, it's impossible to move lens standard or image/film standard at the same ease and precision as focussing SLR lens, without sacrificing more Important features of a camera for daily use.
    Gears plus design, is the answer to keep weigh reasonable plus featuring the best possible precision.
    IMO, Sinar P/P2/C/C2, provide the best compromise of weight and precision among other technical cameras.
    Sinar C/C2, the lighter version, has all movements on the rear standard geared, except the coarse tilt(the equivalent of base tilt). Front standard has no gears, but has zero stops and precise scales down to 1mm and 1° degree.
    Sinar P/P2, heavier version, but lighter than any camera that use brackets around the standards, has all movements geared, except the coarse tilt(front&back).
    The camera still has the main tilt/swing/up-down-lateral displacements, all geared.
    BTW, coarse tilt(base tilt) is not used usually, except in some applications if needed like macro. While the main geared tilt/swing movements, are asymmetrical.
    Fine focussing of all Sinar camera models, is geared, while the coarse focussing is friction/lock mechanism.
    Hope that help.

    The generosity of spirit in this forum is great, its warmly appreciated.
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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Used a Sinar C outdoors for decades. Weight is moderate with geared movements on the rear. The Sinar P or P2 or P3 or X has geared movements on shift, rise, tilt, swing. Geared movements in studio works nicely in many ways. This plus the Sinar Swing-Tilt system makes using camera movements quick and easy. This is why Sinar became the choice for Studio production work back in the day. Add the very broad range of add ons from shutter to a variety of bellows, in camera masking add ons, filter holders, few limits on rails or camera bellows length, interchangeable film formats and .... A good lower weight alternative that can be lugged around outdoors is a Sinar Norma. Does not have all geared movements, but Sinar system interchangeable nicer made and more precise than the Sinar F or Alpine.

    The forgotten and often ignored alternative is the Horseman L series. These are excellent cameras in every way equal to all other high quality geared view cameras at a lower cost. Do not like their rail system which is heavy and bulky, other than this, these are a VERY good choice in every way and Somewhat interchangeable with Sinar.

    There are others including Linhof which is pricy for their offering and does not have the overall system capability as Sinar.

    Those who use LF optics at large lens apertures (f8 and larger) would be better served due to the higher precision location of the camera standards or alignment which wood camera can have difficulty with. LF optics stopped down to say f22 and smaller might not make any difference what so ever.



    Bernice

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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    “There are others including Linhof which is pricy for their offering and does not have the overall system capability as Sinar.”

    Never looked at the Linhof Master Kardan GTL with continuously variable assymetrical movements and the multiple image ratio depth of field control and telescopic monorail?

  10. #10

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    Re: Camera Movements?!

    Possible to set up a Linhof GTL with six to ten feet and more of bellows and rail?
    What about a on camera shutter that is integrated into the camera system on the Linhof GTL?

    Let's not turn this into a contest, it is a reality of what Sinar as a system can offer that is difficult to achieve on other camera brands using standard easy to get add-ons.


    Bernice

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