TF-4 vs. TF-5 for FP4+ Developed in Pyrocat HD?

[Tim Layton]

Hi, does anyone in the group here understand if there is a reason on a chemical level to use TF-4 vs. TF-5 for FP4+ developed in Pyrocat HD in a Jobo?

I have both on hand in a small supply and I would rather consolidate down to just one if it makes sense to do so. I have been using TF-5 on my fiber prints and out of habit, I have been using TF-4 since it came out for my Pyrocat HD negatives. I want to make sure I am not missing something.

Thanks

Tim

[Michael R]

There is no reason to prefer TF-4 over TF-5.

[John Layton]

I think there was some discussion of this (TF-4 vs TF-5) over on Photrio back in the Apug days. I've been using TF-4 with my FP4+/Pyrocat HD combo - and its been working well so I figure I'll just keep up with this.

I've been thinking of trying TF-5 with prints...as I believe it may have somewhat less odor in open trays. Does this sound correct? I actually don't mind the slight ammonia odor of TF-4 while tray processing negatives (plus my vent fans have no trouble keeping up with this)...but I have not tried TF-4 with prints as my print tray sizes are quite a bit larger (up to 34x48) than my film trays.

...and Tim, as you probably know - you and I share what I believe is the least common spelling of our last name!

[Tim Layton]

Hey John, always good to see another Layton!

I have also been very happy with TF-4 with my Pyrocat HD negatives. I don't have an issue with having to shake it up before mixing what I need for a development session. I typically develop either 5 sheets of 8x10 in the expert drum or 10 sheets of 4x5 in the expert drum.

I started using TF-5 for printing because of the lack of mixing/shaking before use and the reduced odor as you pointed out. I like to try and simplify if I can and so that is what is driving my question if TF-5 is appropriate for Pyrocat HD developed negatives.

I am printing up to 30x40 in trays with TF-5 and I use a large 16" tube for my 40x50 prints via my 4x5 negatives. I am actually working on a project right now where I am trying to get my 45V-XL with the 8x10 cold light head to be able to get me to 30x40 and 40x50 from my 8x10 negatives. I have hundreds of 8x10 negatives that I would like to be able to print and also for future work as well.

I want to make sure there isn't a chemistry-based reason not to use TF-5 on the Pyrocat HD developed negatives.

Thanks

Tim

[peter schrager]

TF5 is more likeable I've been using it with pyro for years

[Alan9940]

I have been using TF-5 for years with all films developed in Pyrocat-HD; or, any pyro-based developer for that matter. No issue that I'm aware of and it's more pleasant to use and easier to mix.

[Tim Layton]

Thanks for confirming Peter.

TF5 is more likeable I've been using it with pyro for years

[esearing]

TF-5 is PH Neutral and does not bleach the Pyro HD Stain. I have used both and never saw any difference on paper or film other than the fact that I used to get more particles in TF-4 than I do with TF-5.
I also see no difference on prints using Ilford Rapid Fix vs TF-5.
If toning a print I wonder if there would be a difference in response to rapid fix vs TF-5 after thorough washing?

[John Layton]

Eric...are you saying you get particles in your TF-4 during a fixing procedure - or do they show up afterwards? My concern here would be that if such particles were to present themselves during a procedure...then they might be apt to cause a bit of micro-scratching of negatives.

At any rate...do you then filter the solution - or do the particles get re-absorbed through agitation?

In my own experience I have not noticed such particulates in TF-4 once its been allowed to stabilize after mixing - but perhaps I need to give it a closer look!

[esearing]

I switched to TF5 after just one batch of TF4. I would use a liter for processing 8-10 4x5 negatives and would have enough particles that I had to filter. I do not know if they were silver particles or merely a compound coming out of solution. It still worked but I was more afraid it would leave black particles on the negatives.

TF5 doesn't seem to have the problem.
Ilford rapid fixer stock can fall out of solution but I can usually shake it up, or the particles are heavy enough they sink to bottom of container and are easily omitted.

I buy smaller quantities now too since I tend to work in spurts and mix as needed. Costs a bit more annually but gives me peace of mind.