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Thread: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

  1. #1
    Corran's Avatar
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    My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    A very kind forum member sent me some AZO to try out. Several users on this forum have told me I should try printing on AZO (or Lodima) and that it is the "Best Paper Ever." On many occasions I have seen AZO sell for more than new Ilford paper in the classifieds. I am not one to buy into hype and I wasn't about to spend huge bucks on a large quantity of paper I wasn't sure about (and that is older than me!) so I must thank my benefactor for sending me this amount of paper to try out.

    This morning I contact printed the same 8x10 negative on three papers - the AZO paper I was sent that is Grade 3, as well as Ilford's Warmtone semi-matte paper and some Galerie G2 paper I have on hand. I used freshly-mixed Ansco 130 for all 3 prints.

    For the Warmtone, I used a #3 filter since it is multigrade. I left the filter in place for both the AZO and Galerie just to compare directly the exposure differences. I was pleasantly surprised that the Galerie paper had the exact same exposure time as the Warmtone. Since it was G2 I went ahead and overdeveloped it to give it a little more contrast. Finally, the AZO - it ended up taking a couple test strips to dial in exposure because it ended up taking 3.5 stops more light to get a similar exposure. I now understand why bare bulbs were used for contact printing!

    I just scanned the now-dry prints and will post them below. Here's a few thoughts on the differences between the prints as I look at them:

    - The AZO has some very apparent vignetting on the image, or I guess "reverse" vignetting - darkening of the corners from more exposure. I'm not sure what would cause this. Perhaps because it is old?

    - I burned the top half of the image on the Warmtone and Galerie papers, to get a bit more of the highlights under control. The AZO did not need any burning.

    - The lower midtones on the AZO seem a bit more contrasty and "luminous." Both of the other Ilford papers seem a bit flat in the lower midtones. However, the Galerie paper is better than the Warmtone, and I think that at G3 the Galerie would look a bit closer to the AZO, perhaps even the same.

    - The Galerie has a very flat gloss, while the AZO almost has a bit of texture or mottling of the surface. But not in physical texture, but the look of the printed image. The semi-matte Warmtone paper is not comparable obviously.

    - Tone of the image varied only slightly between the 3. The scans kind of emphasize the differences, but don't take them as a scientific comparison of image tone.

    - Sharpness of the Warmtone image seemed slightly lower than the other two. Due to the slight textured look of the AZO it seemed slightly sharper than the Galerie. Overall differences though were negligible.

    - Highlights seem to be retained a hair more on the AZO, despite burning down the Galerie and Warmtone a slight amount. The Warmtone, as I've seen previously, has the most difficult time printing down highlights. This is pretty amazing results for the AZO - overall I think one would need much less of a dialed-in negative to get a full range print, whereas for the others it better be a great negative or you'll have blocked up shadows and/or blown highlights. That said, I am wondering if the previously mentioned vignetting is actually a byproduct of age/fogging and giving a false impression with regard to highlight retention - perhaps instead it is just a "pre-flash" of the paper, in effect.

    - On that note, I did notice on my test strips that if they were left in the developer for a long time, they did develop some slight fog. But only after a long time, longer than the prints were developed for.

    Overall, I am really impressed - but I'm not sure I am going to be emptying my bank account to go buy some AZO, or Lodima. If Lodima was on the market at the same price roughly as Ilford Galerie though, I would possibly or probably switch. That said, it can not be forgotten that multigrade paper gives the ability for split-grade printing/burning which I find can be a powerful tool, so the Warmtone is still a valuable paper. All 3 gave excellent prints, and these slight differences are not earth-shattering, but they are certainly apparent when looking at the prints.

    Below, I will post the scan of the film, and then the three print scans. Again, the scan of the prints are not completely scientifically accurate representations, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions based on these scans. The image was taken with my Wehman UL 8x10, 120mm f/8 Nikkor, on Delta 100 developed in FX-39:

    SCAN:


    AZO:


    GALERIE:


    WARMTONE:
    Bryan | Blog | YouTube | Instagram | Portfolio
    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

  2. #2
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    Great review and interesting results.

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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    The vignetting sounds like reciprocity failure because of the long exposure time.
    Iow the vignetting is there in your light source, you just don't normally see it because it's very slight. As you go into reciprocity failure that slight difference matters more. Easily solved w a brighter light or taking off the filter even.

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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    Thanks Randy!

    GB - interesting thought, but wouldn't the vignetting you describe from the enlarger lens cause lighter edges, not darker? Or is it that the reciprocity of the paper shows from the higher density of the negative in the central portion, therefore needing longer exposure times and exaggerating the vignetting at time of exposure? I actually thought it was exaggerating the negative's vignetting but the scan seems to have such little vignetting that I didn't think that was it, but you may be correct.

    I just realized that it may be "wrong" to use my enlarger for contact printing as I do. I usually use a lens to project a circle of light for contact printing. Using the light source with no lens is way too much light for normal enlarging papers I use. For instance, in the examples above on Warmtone/Galerie, exposure time was 7 seconds total, with my lens set at f/11. For the AZO I set it to f/8 and did 1:30 exposure. Now that I say that I realize I miscalculated, it's actually over 5 stops more light onto the paper, not the 3.5 I said earlier.
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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    What paper developer and time/temperature did you use for these papers.
    Match Azo with Amidol and your results may be a bit different.
    Independent testing over the years by many due to the Azo cheerleaders has shown some excellent qualities for the paper - and now for Lodima. Taking advantage of the Amidol developer will give results a bit different than many "normal" print developers.
    ” Never attribute to inspiration that which can be adequately explained by delusion”.

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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    Ansco 130 was the developer. I did not measure the temperature, but my DR right now is at 75F so it was likely about that. Many people compare 130 to Amidol, but it doesn't have the staining issues known from Amidol and also has phenomenal shelf life. At this time I'm not really interested in using Amidol. As per usual, I will state here that I am not a grizzled old DR expert with 50 years of experience under my belt. So my opinions are just that, opinions based on my personal experiences using a variety of papers, developers, and techniques learned in the last decade and using mostly modern papers and developers.

    Personally I think there is a bit of "magic bullet syndrome" with regard to AZO these days. I can understand the allure, especially compared to multigrade papers, which I have found to be harder to print highlights on than graded.

    If someone with a chunk of AZO and Amidol wants to prove me completely wrong and print this negative in their DR, I will send them the negative. If it is clearly head-and-shoulders a better print than my AZO/130 print I will happily scan and post it.
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    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

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    Peter De Smidt's Avatar
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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    Nice work, Bryan!
    “You often feel tired, not because you've done too much, but because you've done too little of what sparks a light in you.”
    ― Alexander Den Heijer, Nothing You Don't Already Know

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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    Thanks Peter!
    Bryan | Blog | YouTube | Instagram | Portfolio
    All comments and thoughtful critique welcome

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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers

    You're of course right Bryan, I got it reversed. But, I think the main point still holds, that the long azo exposure is exaggerating an existing unevenness in your light source and that a brighter light would eliminate the issue. I just use a desk lamp w between a 50 to 150w bulb depending on neg density. As to amidol vs 130 the main advantage to amidol is the water bath, which gives you great contrast control.

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    Re: My thoughts on AZO vs. Ilford Galerie and Warmtone papers


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