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Thread: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You Get?

  1. #1

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    Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You Get?

    Hello everyone!

    Well I'm looking to get into 16x20 tintype photography.

    I'm starting to find lenses. I think I have an idea what longer lens I want for half body to 1:1 head shots.

    What I am now looking into is wide lenses. I would love a lens that i can shoot a full body in portrait and landscape orientation.

    So my question to you ULF guru's is would you rather get a Goerz 14inch/355mmm f/7.7 VS NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9?

    I'm not 100% clear on if I can get a full body in a shot and still get enough image circle in portrait and landscape orientations.
    Also, does anyone have any knowledge about the sharpness and contrast between these lenses?

    I've added some screen shots from the lens PDF found at largeformatphotography.info but I think I need help still hahha (i.e. I would rather hear from human experience)

    Well, thank you so much for reading this and have a wonderful weekend!
    Cheers,
    Kevin H.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Goerz Dagor.jpg   image circle help.jpg  

  2. #2

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    Hmm, 14" Dagor at f45 to cover 1620 is going to require pretty still subjects. There's also the 355 G-Claron which may be easier to find, but not sure of the coverage stopped way down. L

  3. #3

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    At F45 an outdoor image will take about 1-3 minutes exposure, on wetplate with bright outdoor lighting. Or a psuedo-thermonuclear level flash with strobes, that will melt the clothes off the subject. Human experience talking here....you want a fast lens that will cover wide open for wetplate.

  4. #4

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    Quote Originally Posted by goamules View Post
    At F45 an outdoor image will take about 1-3 minutes exposure, on wetplate with bright outdoor lighting. Or a psuedo-thermonuclear level flash with strobes, that will melt the clothes off the subject. Human experience talking here....you want a fast lens that will cover wide open for wetplate.
    Yup, they never think of these things, do they? 16x20 sounds pretty cool until you try to figure out the logistics. As they say, the Devil is in the Details!

  5. #5
    Tin Can's Avatar
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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    You need to do some online research.

    Start below and then start looking. Google is good at this.

    http://www.jbhphoto.com/wp-content/u...01/bigcam1.pdf

    I plan to use a Nikor 610mm f9 on my 14X17 for head and shoulders. Nearly life-size. Which is called 1 to 1 Macro.

    http://www.savazzi.net/download/manuals/Apo-Nikkor.pdf

  6. #6

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    Quote Originally Posted by Qeb View Post
    Hello everyone!

    Well I'm looking to get into 16x20 tintype photography.
    Kevin, the 16x20" format has a diagonal of 625mm, I figure you know that those lenses won't cover the format for distant shots.

    If you calculate the distance at what you will have the head of the subject when focusing 1:1, then you will realize that you will be too close, so you will get the "nose job" effect.

    You may consider 600mm to 1000mm lenses mentioned here: http://www.angusparkerphoto.com/blog...ndations-14x17

  7. #7
    William Whitaker's Avatar
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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    Seriously take a look at Reinhold Schable's Wollaston lenses. (http://re-inventedphotoequip.com/Formats.html) They're fast, but not ultra-fast. They're easily available. And they are affordable. Reinhold is a member of this forum and a good fellow to work with. The lenses are very simple, but well thought out.

    Keep in mind that any lens which has both a long focal length and a fast aperture is by necessity going to require a fairly large piece of glass. That equates to lensboard size, weight, filter size (if a consideration) and ultimately cost.

  8. #8

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    Hi Kevin,

    I have the Nikon 450mm f9 lens, and it does cover 16x20 at f32 and smaller apertures. I cannot recall if I tried exposing any film at f22 or larger apertures (depth of field with 16x20 is a nightmare: extremely shallow unless you are shooting at infinity or close to it) with my 16x20 camera. Sandy King might know...

    I have a Goerz DAGOR 19" f7.7, but I cannot recall if I have used it yet. I mainly use the Nikon and either my Goerz 24" RED DOT ARTAR or Nikon APO-NIKKOR 610mm f9 lenses. I would be cautious about the 355mm|14" DAGOR covering 16x20: the corners of your negative might end up soft.

    Another consideration: I have a Richard Ritter 16x20 and found it difficult to compress the bellows enough to focus my Nikon NIKKOR-W 360mm f6.5 lens when photographing a Sycamore tree about 6 feet from the lens. So I would advise you to try the Goerz 355mm f7.7 lens before buying it. It may not work with your camera.

    +1 on what Garrett said about lighting.

    Hope this helps.

    Namaste,
    Daniel

  9. #9

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    Try to get a 16 or 19" dagor for landscapes...

    For a full body portrait you can also look for a Dallmeyer RR, my 18x16 covers my 16x20 easily with wider opening than f/45. Maybe you can get something like that for (outdoor) portraits...

  10. #10

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    Re: Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You G

    a triple convertible 12-20-28 or so should work great at 28" (about 711mm)

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