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Thread: Supposed Jesse James tintype

  1. #11
    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Quote Originally Posted by DBuck View Post
    CORRECTION: the published JJ image (on the right in the above post, was supposedly taken in Kansas City). There is no evidence as to where the eBay JJ was taken. Dan
    Do you have access to the original tintype or other evidence, as Dunniway did, to make that claim? You're throwing around accusations quite casually, considering Dunniway's excellent reputation. BTW, Dunniway also cited "Computer facial forensics with 4000 points of reference says they are the same 14 year Jesse."
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

  2. #12

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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    When I read "Computer facial forensics with 4000 points of reference says they are the same 14 year Jesse." I laughed out loud. Notice the word salad, "computer facial forensics." Ha. Translation: abracadabra.

    Will Dunniway and Kent Gibson, by the way, who were both involved with the eBay Jesse James, also teamed up on the bogus Billy the Kid and Pat Garrett tintype that was a minor media circus last year. Even sucked in the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/u...kid-photo.html

    "William Dunniway, a tintype expert, said the photograph was almost certainly taken between 1875 and 1880. 'Everything matches: the plate, the clothing, the firearm,' he said in a phone interview.“ Everything matches that five-year period? Everything? Really? What, did Dunniway do carbon dating? Computer carbon-dating forensics?

    Dunniway and Gibson were also in on the croquet Billy the Kid tintype farce. Gibson that there was an about an 80 % probability that the tintype depicted Billy the Kid, but that if he was asked under oath he would "deny" -- deny was his word -- that it was Billy. Figure that one out.

    "Everything that deceives may be said to enchant" -- Plato.

  3. #13
    Randy's Avatar
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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Well, to my trained eye (trained, meaning I have 60 years of experience looking at people and saying "Where do I know that guy from?") the two boys sure look a lot alike, but if they are the same person, I don't think they were done on the same day - the tintype looks younger and the hair (bangs) is combed differently.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/bigger4b.jpg

  4. #14

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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Fun spirited debate.
    I still think the ears can be explained by angles of the camera view. I think I shall do a few of myself to try the theory out.

  5. #15
    pendennis's Avatar
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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Quote Originally Posted by DBuck View Post
    No serious Jesse James student takes this tintype seriously. Every month or so some starry-eyed bozo finds a photo at a flea market; announces it's Billy the Kid, Butch Cassidy, Peter Pan, whomever; finds a doofus, self-described expert; and declares a multi-million dollar value. The news soon hits the media, where such stories are known cynically as "too-good-to-check," and spins around the world for a day or two, before drifting into obscurity...
    The converse of this is also true.

    For years a picture of Billy the Kid was proof positive that he was left-handed. The way he wore his revolver in his left hip proved it. However, no one bothered to take note of the apparent "flaws" in the picture: He had a left-side eject Winchester rifle, and his clothing was right-over-left closing. Winchester never made a left-hand eject Model 1873, and Billy the Kid probably wasn't a cross-dresser.
    Best,
    Dennis

  6. #16

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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    That's not the converse. Unlike the eBay Jesse James, the authenticity of the Dedrick tintype of Billy the Kid was never seriously doubted. In fact, a line drawing from the tintype illustrated Pat Garrett's 1882 The Authentic Life of Billy the Kid. The image was, however, misunderstood by many to be an unreversed image, including most famously Arthur Penn, the director of the bio-pic The Left-Handed Gun.

    The 2011 sale at auction of the Dedrick image for a whopping $2.3 million we can thank for the recent plague of bogus Old West photos, most of which represent a feckless combination of flea-market find, obliging expert (or two), and hallucinatory several million dollar estimated value. Dan

  7. #17

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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Debunked by new experts consulted by Christies.

    So a $7 tintype is worth.... $7!


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-2m-christies/

  8. #18

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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Some earlier sleuthing by Jesse James descendant Eric James, here, http://ericjames.org/wordpress/

    Eric James is a one-man Jesse James photo debunker. Dan

  9. #19
    Mark Sawyer's Avatar
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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    Quote Originally Posted by DBuck View Post
    Some earlier sleuthing by Jesse James descendant Eric James, here, http://ericjames.org/wordpress/

    Eric James is a one-man Jesse James photo debunker. Dan
    Doesn't seem so much sleuthing or debunking, just insults and innuendo towards any who disagree with him.
    "I love my Verito lens, but I always have to sharpen everything in Photoshop..."

  10. #20

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    Re: Supposed Jesse James tintype

    If one has had to spend any time with Kent Gibson, Lois Gibson, and Will Dunniway -- who collectively seem to have never met a photo they could not declare authentic and worth millions -- you might resort to sarcasm as well. In fact, the sarcasm writes itself. Kent Gibson said that a Billy the Kid tintype was authentic, but if he had to testify in court he would "deny" that it was Billy. (I'm not making that up.) Dunniway said that two supposed Jesse James tintypes were taken the same day in the same studio, yet it was obvious to anyone looking at them the two two lads looked dissimilar and were wearing different jackets. The trio has blessed a dozen or so photos, known cynically among collectors as "flea-market Billies," none of which is generally considered authentic. Ever since the Dedrick Billy the Kid tintype sold for $2.3 million, flea-market Billies have been falling from the sky. Read up on Kent Gibson's Amelia Earhart pratfall. The croquet Billy debacle. The Billy & Pat Garrett and Jesse James & Bob Ford fantasies The list goes on. Dan

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