New Monorail, a Toho rip-off ?

[paul owen]

Just to prove I ma not a complete Ebony-nut, I thought that some of you may be interested in the latest offering from Shen Hao. It is a metal monorail very similar to the Toho 45. Full details are listed on Robert White's web site (www.robertwhite.co.uk) .

Specifications SR45 II
Camera Type Lightweight 5x4 monorail type camera
Materials Used Anodised alloy and steel
Format Standard 4x5 inch spring back. All International Standard sheet film holders may be used : Polaroid 405, 545, 550.

Focusing Rear only by Rack and Pinion
Lensboard Circular type
Camera Back Standard spring back, ground glass with 10mm grid
Movements With film back in landscape orientation:
Shift: Front 18mm left and right. Rear: 20mm left and right.
Rise: 24mm
Fall: Front 21mm. Rear 6mm
Tilt: 30°
Swing: 25° each way.
With film back in Portrait orientation:
Shift: Front 18mm each way. Rear 20mm each way.
Rise: Front 13mm. Rear 24mm.
Fall: Front 32mm. Rear 6mm.
Tilt: 30°.
Swing: 25°.
Bellows Extension 46-360mm
Weight 1.5Kg

Best of all is the price ... a shade over £500 plus VAT!

[Scott Schroeder]

Looks just like my TOHO FC45X...............

[John_4185]

It does not have a Universal back, does it? What a shame if that's true.

[tim atherton]

I don't think the Toho does etiehr does it? It's how you save weight - the universal back is nice and occassioanlly ahndy, but it's an extra bunch of weight and bulk that can be done away with in the compromise for weight savings

[Bruce Watson]

That is a complete and utter ripoff of the Toho. At that price, I doubt it's under license. If it's not, it's theft, pure and simple.

If we don't give companies like Toho a chance to make a profit on their R&D investment, they aren't going to invest any more effort in LF. Why would they? It's unethical, immoral, and just plain bad to support a company what steals another company's design.

[Mike Gudzinowicz]

Are the cameras identical and made by one manufacturer with different distributors?

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Bruce beat me to the punch on this one, and I agree with everything he said 100%. This camera is a blatant copy of the Toho FC-45X. They didn't just copy the design, they cloned it. Of course, without testing the camera, I have no idea if the materials, fit and finish and overall quality are as good as the Toho. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. To me, it doesn't really matter. I'd rather support an innovative company like Toho than save a couple hundred bucks and support a company that rips-off others' designs.

Not only does such blatant copying hurt Toho, it hurts all of us in the long run. If this is allowed to continue, and is supported by members of the large format community, it will stifle innovation in LF camera design. What incentive will there be for Toho to come out with a new improved model if a lower priced clone appears on the market six months later? And if that's true for Toho, it's also true for other camera makers as well, and that's really sad. I love to see new, creative designs, like the Toho, the Canham DLC, the Wehman, the Linhoh Technikardan, etc. appear on the market. Even though we won't all buy these particular models, we all benefit from the competition between these manufacturers trying to one-up each others' latest and greatest design. This competition to design and build a better camera can works best when there is a level playing field. Stealing somebody else's design is not my idea of a level playing field.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Are the cameras identical and made by one manufacturer with different distributors?

No, the original is made in Japan and the clone is made in China.

Kerry

[paul owen]

Shen Hao are known for ripping off other designs. I am pretty sure there was a legal "battle" with Ebony over the non-folding Shen Hao which was an exact replica of the 45SW. Shen Hao do not now make their "version". The reason I bought it to the attention of the forum is that it is a cheap camera - the one thing everyone seems concerned about when looking into getting a LF camera - what's it going to cost? As far as not buying Shen Hao, one could argue that at least they are ploughing ahead and producing affordable cameras - how many contributors here have shown an interest in the ULF cameras that they have in the pipeline? Should we not support a company that is ACTUALLY making LF cameras and equipment. I'm not suggesting that ripping off people's ideas is a good thing - but don't ALL cars nowadays look the same? As an aside, lurking in the back of my mind is a though that didn't Badger "commission" a copy of the Toho too? Was it the M2? In reply to Kerry's post (whom I deeply respect!) - I believe that manufacturers who are ACTIVE will sell cameras ... maybe Shen Hao got tired of waiting for Toho to bring out an improved model and jumped in with their copy? The Toho has been around for some time now and remained unchanged, maybe if Toho were "actively" designing/producing cameras then such blatant copying would be less likely? I'm not sure the price of a new Toho these days? But if Shen Hao are offering an exact copy at a reduced price people are more likely to vote with their wallets. In some respects they are simply giving us what we want - affordable cameras. As for their quality - I am an avid "disliker" of the Shen Hao cameras I have used - for these reasons! Bit it will be interesting to keep an eye on what happens with their latest offering? Just some thoughts.

[Matt Powell]

I e-mailed Badger about their clone right after it was discontinued (Jan. or Feb.), they said there were problems with the supplier. I'm guessing that they were getting them from S-H, or S-H is using Badger's old supplier now.