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Thread: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

  1. #11

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    There's been disagreement about using a serial number test (what is the last dagor type s/n?) and about the existence of 355/9 dagor types. Here's the answer:

    https://1drv.ms/x/s!AggQfcczvHGN0kIjB_63NhzCEsV5 This link is to a spreadsheet that summarizes what I found. It is in the list.

    Short form, there are indeed 355/9 dagor types.

    I own a 355mm Plasmat-type G-Claron, and I would be really delighted to get a Dagor-type one. So I was happy to see the good news that those do exist. But.... That's what I found checking the list:-

    (1) " # 10 737 773 yes http://www.largeformatphotography.in...mm-f9-G-Claron "

    No data at all on that particular lens. Though the thread itself ends with "no one has yet come up with an early one that is not a plasmat".

    Should I belive any lens not proved to be a plasmat to be a dagor?
    Should I assume a statement that no one has yet come up with an early 355mm G-Claron that is not a plasmat to be a proof that dagor-type 355mm G-Clarons really exist?
    Sorry but I'd better not.

    (2) " # 10 737 xxx yes http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ate-Casket-Set "

    No data at all on that particular lens... NOW. But the thread originally contained pictures that are now gone, and what those pictures were showing was most probably a 355mm Plasmat.


    (3) " # 11 708 xxx. yes http://www.largeformatphotography.in...gor-Type/page4 "

    proof positive: NO. See message #32:

    Jon Wilson 2-Jun-2008:
    My 355mm G-claron <...> has 4 strong reflections, i.e., 2 large and 2 smaller ones, but all strong reflections, and thus must be the plasmat. The 355mm's sn11708xxx.

    (4) " #11 737 xxx yes http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ate-Casket-Set"

    # 11 737 xxx is never mentioned in the thread.
    # 10 737 xxx is mentioned; its the same lens mentioned in the thread #63200 above, and again no data at all is published on it.


    That's it. After 10 years of the quest, the 2008 statement "no one has yet come up with an early one that is not a plasmat" is still valid. And the list above is the evidence... And no I am not too happy with it. I would be glad if anyone came up with at least ONE 355mm Dagor-type G-Claron.


    P.S.: I didn't check the data on shorter focal length G-Clarons because I am not interested in those.
    P.P.S.: I'm sorry. Really.

  2. #12

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Ridax, thanks for your comments.

    The owners of the two earliest 355s I found posted the serial numbers 10 737 773 and 10 737 xxx.

    -773's owner was asked to count reflections, didn't report. I now score it as a "perhaps," thanks for pushing back.

    -xxx's owner asserted that it is a dagor type in the first post in the thread without giving a reason why he thought it was and didn't recant after being told how reflection counts differ between the two types.

    I scored Thierry Schreiner's 355 as a plasmat.

    11 737 xxx was a misread, I've removed it.

  3. #13

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    150mm G-Claron 11 XXX XXX Dagor
    210mm G-Claron 13 XXX XXX Plasmat
    305mm G-Claron 14 XXX XXX Plasmat
    355mm G-Claron 13 XXX XXX Plasmat
    Difference in reflections is obvious on my lenses.

  4. #14

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Thanks, Greg. I've added y'r 150 to the list.

    What's most interesting is lenses with serial numbers around the break point and especially 355s. The break point seems to be around 12,000,000.

    You and many others don't post complete serial numbers. Since you're here, I'll ask you. Why not post full serial numbers or at least the first five digits?

  5. #15
    Drew Wiley
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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Plasmat style G-Clarons replaced not only dagor process lenses, but even the superb taking Dagors made for them by Kern. I was specifically told this by Schneider. The G-plasmat Clarons excelled in almost every measurable parameter - coverage, sharpness, tangential resolution, etc. I would agree with this, though it's almost impossible to excel the contrast and hue purity of a late Kern Dagor (I was shooting mine a few days ago). Dagors are also tricky to precisely make. The symmetrical halves need to be very precisely matched.

  6. #16

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Fromm View Post
    You and many others don't post complete serial numbers. Since you're here, I'll ask you. Why not post full serial numbers or at least the first five digits?
    Old habit... and I don't remember why or when I started not to post complete serial numbers!
    Greg

  7. #17

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    Luis, do you know roughly what the usable image circle on the 270mm Dagor is? I'm wondering if it covers 8x20 (~550mm), or if the 305mm is the limit on that kind of coverage.
    Not sure about the usable image circle vs. the circle of illumination, but I finally put the 270 G-Claron on the 11x14 and it does not vignette past f/32. Not sure of the image quality at the corners, that's for another day. L
    Last edited by Luis-F-S; 6-Apr-2018 at 08:28.

  8. #18
    Lachlan 717
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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    For the sake of the database, here’s an 11,000,000 version on eBay:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Lachlan.

    You miss 100% of the shots you never take. -- Wayne Gretzky

  9. #19

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Thanks Dan for sharing your research.
    I wondered if the dagor type weight is different from the plasmat type weight,
    just simply comparing the front & rear barrel weights of the dagor type against those of the plasmat type.

    If you have an experience with both a gorez gold dot dagor and a dagor type g-claron, how do they differ in pictures?

  10. #20

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    Re: Recognizing dagor type G-Clarons

    Thanks for the kind word.

    Comparing weights never occurred to me. I just looked at the catalogs, which don't show weights. One would have to get examples of all focal lengths of both types and and weigh them. I'm sorry, but I don't need that many G-Clarons.

    No experience with real (Goerz or CZJ) Dagors of any vintage. I'm sure that they and Schneider dagor types (early Symmars, early G-Clarons) have different engraving and liveries.

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