Cleaning of slow shutters

[Rapidrob]

I have several shutters of the Copal type from 0 to 1's that are way out of time and hang up due to migrated oil or dust over the decades onto the blades. I have a large ultrasonic cleaner and was wondering if I could place the shutters in a container filled with the appropriate cleaner and set the container in the ultrasound cleaner filled with water. I can also control the temperature as well.
I would like your opinion on using this method and what cleaners would you use?

[xkaes]

I have never heard of these "ultrasonic cleaners" so this thread will be interesting to me. I have Copal #0 and #1 shutters, and undoubtedly photograph in similar conditions to you -- sand, dust, wind, heat, low humidity, freezing temps, etc. My shutters are all decades old and seem to work fine, but I usually use SLOW speeds. My high speeds might be off, but that is typical, and not a concern to me. Still, I have some smaller format shutters that have problems, so I await responses.

[Bob Salomon]

I have several shutters of the Copal type from 0 to 1's that are way out of time and hang up due to migrated oil or dust over the decades onto the blades. I have a large ultrasonic cleaner and was wondering if I could place the shutters in a container filled with the appropriate cleaner and set the container in the ultrasound cleaner filled with water. I can also control the temperature as well.
I would like your opinion on using this method and what cleaners would you use?

Wouldn’t you be wiser if you directly asked this question to a camera repair shop or lens manufacturer?

[Leigh]

Wouldn’t you be wiser if you directly asked this question to a camera repair shop or lens manufacturer?

Well, I are a camera repair tech, so...

I have several shutters of the Copal type from 0 to 1's that are way out of time and hang up due to migrated oil or dust over the decades onto the blades. I have a large ultrasonic cleaner and was wondering if I could place the shutters in a container filled with the appropriate cleaner and set the container in the ultrasound cleaner filled with water. I can also control the temperature as well.

NEVER put ANYTHING against the bottom of an ultrasonic cleaner. Doing so will destroy the cleaner.

Put whatever you want to clean in a hanging basket. That can contain whatever you want.
I usually put large items directly in the basket, and smaller ones in a beaker in the basket.

I normally disassemble a shutter, clean the major individual parts, then put the escapement
in the ultrasonic cleaner for a half hour or so.

Having done so, it must be completely and properly lubricated before returning it to service.
This may require several different lubricants, applied where and as needed.
ALWAYS follow the manufacturer's recommendations regarding lubricant, both type and use.

There are very few points other than the escapement that requite any lubrication.
DO NOT disassemble the escapement.
If you do, we'll find you in a heavy jacket in a rubber room.

NEVER put any lube on the diaphragm or shutter blades or their drives.

- Leigh

[Erik Larsen]

Well, I are a camera repair tech, so...

NEVER put ANYTHING against the bottom of an ultrasonic cleaner. Doing so will destroy the cleaner.

Put whatever you want to clean in a hanging basket. That can contain whatever you want.
I usually put large items directly in the basket, and smaller ones in a beaker in the basket.

I normally disassemble a shutter, clean the major individual parts, then put the escapement
in the ultrasonic cleaner for a half hour or so.

Having done so, it must be completely and properly lubricated before returning it to service.
This may require several different lubricants, applied where and as needed.
ALWAYS follow the manufacturer's recommendations regarding lubricant, both type and use.

There are very few points other than the escapement that requite any lubrication.
NEVER put any lube on the diaphragm or shutter blades.

- Leigh

Hi Leigh,
When applying lube to the escapement do you lube the axle of the gears or the gear teeth or both?

[Leigh]

Hi Leigh,
When applying lube to the escapement do you lube the axle of the gears or the gear teeth or both?

Only on the axles, and in minute quantities.

These devices are amazing considering they were made entirely by hand, i.e. not computerized machines.

I have a pocket watch (in my watch pocket at present) that was made in 1887. It still keeps perfect time.

- Leigh

[summer12]

Wouldn’t you be wiser if you directly asked this question to a camera repair shop or lens manufacturer?

I think it's a good idea

[DennisD]

I have several shutters of the Copal type from 0 to 1's that are way out of time and hang up due to migrated oil or dust over the decades onto the blades. I have a large ultrasonic cleaner and was wondering if I could place the shutters in a container filled with the appropriate cleaner and set the container in the ultrasound cleaner filled with water. I can also control the temperature as well.
I would like your opinion on using this method and whaet cleaners would you use?

IMHO - what you describe sounds like it could be a recipe for disaster.
If cleaning is successful, do you know what parts to lubricate and do you have with the proper shutter lubricant ?

If you truly value the shutter(s), best bet would be send to a qualified repair shop for the proper attention.

OTOH if you are just looking to play and willing to risk damage, go for it ! ! !

[mdarnton]

I can see a couple of problems. The first is that quite a bit of solid crud gets into a shutter through small holes over time. In order to really get it out you will at least have to partially disassemble the shutter--taking the front off at the minimum. That will give direct access to the first layer of works. However, the shutter blades and some of the mechanism are still deeper and not directly accessible by the cleaning fluid, and the diaphragm layer is below that. So by digging in as far as most people with a screwdriver might feel comfy, you are only 1/3 into the works.

The second problem is that if you do not go deeper, then you will be dissolving and redistributing the crud. The nature of mechanical things is that the worst of it gets pushed to the side (think of your windshield wipers as a good example). By doing an incomplete deep cleaning you'll be redistributing that evil stuff back into the center of the action.

That's aside from what Dennis mentions of washing out all the lube, especially from places you can't reach to put it back even if you had the right lubricants.

There are shutters designed to work without lubrication, but I don't believe Copals are among them.

[Pere Casals]

I have several shutters of the Copal type from 0 to 1's that are way out of time and hang up due to migrated oil or dust over the decades onto the blades. I have a large ultrasonic cleaner and was wondering if I could place the shutters in a container filled with the appropriate cleaner and set the container in the ultrasound cleaner filled with water. I can also control the temperature as well.
I would like your opinion on using this method and what cleaners would you use?

Recently I DIY lubricated a compur and a seiko. In the compur case I had to clean oil from the shutter blades, I used Isopropyl Alcohol 100% (IPA). Very, very carefully I helped the blades to close in order it could be cocked, then some IPA drops and repetitive shots, and cleaning very carefully the blades and IPA drops again, this way the dirt goes outside, without dissembling the blades. I lubricated the sutters with Interflon Food Lube (oil, not grease, of course). I got complete success with the compur, perfect !! the Seiko was at first perfect but after some 2 month it became slow again, I've to try again with it.