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Thread: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

  1. #1

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    Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Here's an odd one: I haven't used fomopan before but having a couple of boxes from last year, and going on holiday in a couple of weeks, I decided to try half a dozen test exposures (+1, 0 -1 stop) with a couple of lenses to see how it went.

    Exposed, cooked it in R09 (2 min wash, 9 mins 50:1 development, 2 mins wash, 4 mins fix) - and got absolutely nothing on any of the six sheets. Not under exposed, but nothing. Nada, zip, zilch. Absolutely clear film.

    The only sensible thing I can come up with is that the R09 has oxidised: it was from a 120cc bottle of concentrate, of which about half had been used (successfully) towards the end of last year.

    Any other thoughts? I suppose it could be a bad batch of film (someone forgot the emulsion?) but they remembered the anti-halation dye. One thing: when I have used R09 with my usual Adox CHS, the first wash produces a deep blue product, but the used developer comes out red. In this case, the first wash was bright green, but so was the used developer...

    Next approach will be with a fresh bottle of dev, perhaps just on an sheet exposed to daylight. It *ought* to go black...

    Any help appreciated, thanks.

    Neil

  2. #2

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Try a clip test with the remaining old R09 and see if anything happens.

  3. #3

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    I've never had issues with any fomapan film in any format not giving an image at all, so the situation seems fairly unique. Since you got a green color to the wash water, you must have used sheet film, as smaller format fomapan doesn't have an antihalation dye incorporated in it. Furthermore, when I use rodinal, the developer tends to come out quite brown, even without a prewash. Rodinal/R09 tends to oxidize quite vehemently during development, making the color of the used developer distinctly darker than when it goes into the development tank. With remaining antihalation dye added to the developer, the color is usually brown/green with fomapan sheet films and definitely less pure green than from a pure water prewash with antihalation dye dissolved in it. Did you note this distinct difference in color? If the color was more or less the same, something weird is certainly going on.

    Either way, I'd just give it a try with another (proven usable) developer. Also check if you didn't load the film backwards, although I'd expect a faint image even if you somehow made a mistake in this respect in your test.

    For cross reference, I'd develop a strip of fully exposed roll film of any kind for a known-good time in this batch of R09 so you can get an idea if the developer is still viable. A few test frames on a film you're very familiar it in this developer would of course be even better.

  4. #4

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Any chance you accidentally put the film in the fixer first before the developer?
    Reid

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/rjbuzzclick/

  5. #5
    8x10, 5x7, 4x5, et al Leigh's Avatar
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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by rjbuzzclick View Post
    Any chance you accidentally put the film in the fixer first before the developer?
    That's what I would expect.

    There should be edge imprints even if the film was not exposed at all in-camera.
    I'm __assuming__ fomapan has edge imprints. I've never shot it.

    Similarly, I've never used R09, but I have used hundreds of gallons of real Rodinal.
    It NEVER goes bad in the bottle... full, half-empty, just a trace left, 20 years old... does not matter at all.
    We've had reports of 50-year-old Rodinal working properly.

    - Leigh
    If you believe you can, or you believe you can't... you're right.

  6. #6

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Fomapan does not have edge imprints. (In fact, Fomapan 100 and Fomapan 400 both have the same notch code!)

    If the developer was completely exhausted, I doubt any imprints would show up.

    I've also shot a lot of Foma; never had an issue like this.

  7. #7

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by barnacle View Post
    Here's an odd one: I haven't used fomopan before but having a couple of boxes from last year, and going on holiday in a couple of weeks, I decided to try half a dozen test exposures (+1, 0 -1 stop) with a couple of lenses to see how it went.

    Exposed, cooked it in R09 (2 min wash, 9 mins 50:1 development, 2 mins wash, 4 mins fix) - and got absolutely nothing on any of the six sheets. Not under exposed, but nothing. Nada, zip, zilch. Absolutely clear film.

    The only sensible thing I can come up with is that the R09 has oxidised: it was from a 120cc bottle of concentrate, of which about half had been used (successfully) towards the end of last year.

    Any other thoughts? I suppose it could be a bad batch of film (someone forgot the emulsion?) but they remembered the anti-halation dye. One thing: when I have used R09 with my usual Adox CHS, the first wash produces a deep blue product, but the used developer comes out red. In this case, the first wash was bright green, but so was the used developer...

    Next approach will be with a fresh bottle of dev, perhaps just on an sheet exposed to daylight. It *ought* to go black...

    Any help appreciated, thanks.

    Neil
    That is my usual Fomapan 100 in RO9 recipe as well, and I have not had a problem with it.
    Like the others, I am wondering if the fixer went in first.
    Sorry Neil - I have no other ideas
    Tom

  8. #8

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Thanks for all the ideas, guys. I think, though, I can eliminate most of them:

    1) film was in the right way round (it was sheet, yes).
    2) the green in the used dev was as close as I can remember to the (more intense) green from the initial wash - just 'thinner'. No hint of red at all.
    3) I don't measure the fixer until the post-dev rinse is in progress precisely to avoid that risk.
    4) I always use the same coloured jugs for the same process steps, and the dev jug is washed and cleaned and not used after that stage.

    I'll do another test tonight with fresh developer and another sheet of film, fully exposed.

    Neil

  9. #9

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    Neil, if the developer didn't come out a bit brownish, something probably went wrong mixing the developer or its a very rare case of rodinal going bad.

    Be sure to use a different film to test your developer to exclude the incredibly remote chance of this batch of film being the problem.

  10. #10

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    Re: Fomopan 100/R09 disaster

    If there's absolutely nothing on film sheets I'de first check the lens shutter.

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