Shortening black and white film washing time?

[chassis]

Hello all,

Did some searching and didn't find anything that satisfied the question.

Can black and white film washing time be (significantly) reduced? Here are the pertinent workflow steps:

Film: TXP 320 in 4x5
Fixer: Kodak Fixer
Wash: 20-30 minutes per Kodak, running water at 68 deg F
Final rinse: 10% solution of 90% isopropyl alcohol and a few ml of Photo Flo for about 1 minute at 68 deg F

I have been processing C-41 lately, and noticed there is effectively no washing time. The final step, "final rinse" is 1:05 (1 minute 5 seconds) at 100 deg F. The C-41 fixer step is 6:30. My C-41 negatives dry in 1 hour max, frequently in much less time. My black and white negatives often take 2 hours or more to be completely dry.

Does anyone wash black and white film at elevated temperature, for example 100 deg F? What about using C-41 final rinse, or a water/iso/PhotoFlo rinse bath at 100 deg F? I would like to curtail the wash and dry steps if it doesn't create unwanted effects.

I realize that black and white film doesn't need the antibacterial aspect of C-41 rinse.

Thanks for any comments.

[Ken Lee]

You might find this short article helpful: Favorite Fixer: Alkaline

...and this one too: Dishrack Film Washer

To avoid reticulation, keep the entire process at the same temperature, which should be close to ordinary room temperature.

[Mark Sampson]

Color and B/w films have different emulsion characteristics (obviously). C-41 films are usually dried at high temp in the processing machine. All the silver is removed from the color image in the process so you don't have to wash out the remnants, as is necessary in b/w.
If you wash b/w film at 100F you risk reticulation of the emulsion; it may in fact slide right off the film base. Best practice has all b/w chems within 1degree F of each other. And use of a hypo-clearing agent will help speed up your wash time. Drying, well, that's down to temperature and humidity.

[chassis]

Ken, thanks, your site is great. I will have a look at the T-3 fixer. Do you have a recommendation for shorter drying time? I've noticed the C-41 final rinse seems more slippery and "thicker" (higher viscosity?) than a water+Photo Flo rinse. The C-41 process has a lot going for it for the self-processor, in terms of dry-to-dry time.

Mark, thanks. I will probably not experiment with elevated temp black and white washing because I am too entrenched in my ways (aka lazy) to do testing.

[lab black]

Ilford recommends a multiple fill and dump washing process that you may find to be of interest.
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/f...roduct_id/711/

[chassis]

Thanks lab. If I understand the Ilford process, it is 3 changes of water with lots of agitation.

[Oren Grad]

Kodak Fixer is a hardening fixer. The Ilford rapid wash sequence assumes a non-hardening fixer.

[koraks]

I never noticed c41 stabilizer being higher in viscosity than plain water with a little photoflo, but who knows; stabilizer these days is water with a little surfactant and a little fungicide/preservative added. Maybe the latter ingredient has a slight influence on viscosity.
C41 need not and should not be washed after the stabilizer bath as that will wash out the preservative. However, I think it doesn't hurt to wash in a few changes of water after fixing; that's what I do at least.
As mentioned, washing apparently can be shorter for c41 due to the higher temperature and due to the fact that remaining fixer shouldn't pose a threat to the dyes. Obviously, it will affect the silver image of b&w negatives.
I always use the ilford washing method for b&w, that is to say, I wash in three changes of water followed by affect final rinse with a surfactant. As I understand, the washing time for b&w need not be all that long, as the emulsion is very thin anyway and the base of course doesn't absorb any chemicals during processing. Hence, diffusion of remaining chemicals should be quite swift.

[interneg]

Kodak Fixer is a hardening fixer. The Ilford rapid wash sequence assumes a non-hardening fixer.

Given that it's a Sodium Thiosulphate fix, there are open questions as to how well it fixes contemporary higher iodide content film emulsions too. Any rapid fix is likely to be a better bet - & is what (I recall) the Ilford low water wastage wash schemes are built around. The best sequence seems to involve fill, agitate, stand for a few minutes, dump, repeat - followed by a possible longer standing period in fresh water to get the last of the leftover dye out.

[j.e.simmons]

Ron Mowery posted on APUG about tests at Kodak that showed a substantial amount of fixer was removed through diffusion in still water. He recommended 5-minute soaks. I've been using the Ilford method of water changes and agitation but allow the negatives to soak in still water after each agitation.