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Thread: Window vs Art Object

  1. #11

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    As for multiple coats of Pt, I've found it completely unnecessary if you're using a typical high quality paper for printing.

    In addition to David's work, look here:
    http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/GoverP/goverp.html

    Also see the old View Camera article by Stuart Melvin, July/August 2001, The Pigment Over Platinum Print.

    I would say that yes, you have fine control over the gum, but I see it as similar to a flavoring or spice added to a hearty stew, I don't find very fine control necessary to spice things up. I sometimes see some softening, but I'm sure that's due to my sometimes sloppy printing. It's WAY more forgiving in that respect than multiple exposures in Pt.

  2. #12

    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Murray go and look at lots of work and if need be go to a major city and go "see "

  3. #13

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Quote Originally Posted by peter schrager View Post
    Murray go and look at lots of work and if need be go to a major city and go "see "
    Good idea Peter, but doesn't fit my life right now.

    What holidays I do get from work have to be booked a year in advance, so they're usually around our daughters events and summers on our boat exploring the north coast of BC on Canada's west coast. She only has a few years of high school left, so only a couple more chances of steeping her bones in just how amazingly beautiful this coast is. It's a gift that will grow in importance through her life.

    This will give me a few years to finish the darkroom and dabble around the edges of things, then I'll really have the eyes to "see" like you suggest and may know by then where and/or who to go see.

  4. #14

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    (double post)

  5. #15

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Wait a minute...is this the same Peter Schrager from APUG that I corresponded with about 10 years ago?

  6. #16

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Murray, we're on the same page. Penn's approach is what I assumed you were referring to. Penn didn't have access to digital negatives, but I suspect that if he did, he wouldn't have bothered with multiple printing techniques. I'd think the coolest thing to do would be to see some Penn prints and compare them to some modern single-exposure prints made with digital negs. OTOH, if you don't want to deal with digital negs, Penn's approach could deliver higher quality prints. But I'm thinking digital negs are a lot easier way to achieve very high quality prints. AND if you would prefer fussing with multiple exposures anyway, that's OK too, just maybe not so necessary. (And it would get you ready for some nice gum-over printing.)

    Again, I'd be very happy to be shown otherwise.

    As an aside, I think it can be very easy (for me at least) to get sucked down the rabbit hole of searching out older "lost" magical techniques. DAMHIKT.

    Denny
    The difference is quite considerable - going by what the late David Chow (who worked heavily with multiple hit platinum) documented, the dmax can rise from 1.3-1.6 to 1.8 - https://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/...nt-editioning/ To me at least, this seems to have been a significant part in what makes Penn's platinums so much stronger looking than many historical examples of the process.

    Of course a digital pre-press stage is massively helpful, but it isn't going to add density that isn't there in the first place.

    It's like the difference between printing a single hit of black in offset & printing a duotone - you get a stronger tonal range & greater density. Again going from offset techniques, the multi coating technique has some elements in common with 'dry-trap' printing where the ink is left to dry before the next layer is printed, which offers certain benefits in terms of sharpness and tonal definition over the standard 'wet-trap' where each layer is wet-on-wet.

  7. #17

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Quote Originally Posted by interneg View Post
    ...Of course a digital pre-press stage is massively helpful, but it isn't going to add density that isn't there in the first place...
    Exactly what I picked up on, and why my instincts were humming. Here's a couple more links that hint at what may be possible;

    https://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/...-kosel-method/

    http://altphotoprocess.blogspot.ca/2...i-layered.html

    Having used Radeka's masking techniques with silver gelatin paper; it allows all shadow values to be lifted with one mask and then the deepest black areas can be selectively blasted back in with a Shadow Contrast Increase Mask...it makes me wonder how similar techniques with multiple layers would effect a platinum print. My thinking is, at least as far as my images are concerned, is that it will add a sculptural, three dimensional quality.

    But first, the darkroom needs to be finished!

  8. #18

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Interneg,

    I'm happy to accept that densitometry can detect increases in dmax from multiple exposures. Do we know how much of a change in dmax is actually noticeable by eye? (More important to me, I think, than densitometer readings.) In reality, what's the visual difference between 1.6 and 1.8? Is it an "OH WOW" difference or "Hmm, might be darker"? How much of a change in dmax to be perceived as twice as dark?

    As an aside, I've seen Penn's Pt prints, I wasn't struck by how much stronger his prints were (though they were quite excellent), but I was struck by his artistry. And my feeling is that in the end, a good print of a great image is better than a great print of a good image.

    Again, just my $.02.

    Denny

  9. #19

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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny View Post
    Interneg,

    I'm happy to accept that densitometry can detect increases in dmax from multiple exposures. Do we know how much of a change in dmax is actually noticeable by eye? (More important to me, I think, than densitometer readings.) In reality, what's the visual difference between 1.6 and 1.8? Is it an "OH WOW" difference or "Hmm, might be darker"? How much of a change in dmax to be perceived as twice as dark?
    Hi Denny...good point about "a good print of a great image is better than a great print of a good image."

    Years ago I read somewhere that Selectol Soft had a veiling effect on local contrast and that Ansco 120 was a much better soft working developer. That stuck in my head for a while and wouldn't go away, so I mixed some up, tested it, and never used Selectol Soft again. Point being, the only way to find if this mult-layered technique has any merit is to test it out against other methods. It may be that it does work, but may not be appropriate for my images. Only one way to find out...

  10. #20

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    Apr 2011
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    Re: Window vs Art Object

    Murray, you're right, proof of the pudding. PLEASE report back and let folks here know what you find out. I'm skeptical, but I would be delighted to find out that multiple exposures result in a meaningful increase in print quality when using normal best practices with prints from digital negs.

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