Help finding an 8x10

[Phovsho]

Dear All

I'm about to buy my first 8x10 set up. Whilst I have a Linhoff IV I'm really rather new to LF. I'm attracted to the image making process with an 8x10 as much as anything - taking time out of a busy life. My primary interests are available light portraits and a bit of landscape/street scenes.

Anyways, I am after a high quality wooden 8x10 field camera set up. I'm open to either new or used. My preference would be second hand but I need to be confident that the camera is in great shape and only requiring a little bit of maintenance now and then. I live in New Zealand so shipping a LF camera around the world on a regular basis for repairs gets old (and expensive) pretty quick. So my hesitation with buying used is the camera isn't "as advertised" - always the danger with Ebay.

I generally like fine things and am attracted to the idea of finding a camera first time which is a special camera and a lifetime companion. So willing to spend a bit more on a great example of a great camera (and lenses).

My questions at this stage:

1. Is eBay the best place to buy used? I couldn't see a "buy and sell" section on this forum - I was hoping there was one because here you are more likely to be dealing with true entuasiasts. Are there better alternatives than eBay with respect to LF cameras?

2. There are a number of Deardorffs on Ebay at present. A couple are said to be mint but expensive. Others look a little more used but are potentially smooth nice cameras. I appreciate there are always risks but is this even a sensible path to be taking? I chose Deardorff because of its history and generally good reputation. But I'm not attached to them in anyways - they seemed ow risk and beautiful. Should I forget the nostalgia and buy later cameras?

3. If I went for a younger camera - or even new - any suggestions where and what I might look for? I would love an Ebony, for example, but I haven't seen any 8x10s on eBay. I understand they aren't made any more.

4. In terms of lenses I'm really most interested in a (fast) portrait lens (head and shoulders) and a normal (or slightly wide) lens for environmental portraits and landscape/city street scenes. I really don't know where to begin here. So many choices. In my 35mm and MF film cameras I generally find myself gravitating towards german glass (Leica, Rollei, Schneider etc.) My Linhoff IV has Rodenstock 210mm/5.6 and 90mm/6.7. I don't know where to begin here. So many choices, ages and price points. Any advice appreciated.

I appreciate that many newbies post asking a lot of questions about gear. My challenge is I'm ignorant about LF cameras, other than what I've read on the internet, I don't have the opportunity to try before I buy, and I really want to nail it first time as turning gear over from New Zealand can be expensive. Any help, direction or leads appreciated.

Thank you

Murray

[Leszek Vogt]

Don't wish to dissuade you, but you might want to consider 4x5 as a start. It offers more available film stock, more cameras, lenses, accessories, etc.....and at more reasonable prices too. I do see fairly often someone is trying to sell 8x10 on my local CL for $1200. As to lenses, and perhaps this is too general, you'll have to bite it (sometimes) and get more expensive optic/s just to have the desired film coverage. Sure, there will be slip ups on ebay, etc. and exceptions, but that takes time and dedication....not to mention knowledge. Oh, did I mentioned the phys weight of 8x10 ? Also, it doesn't say anywhere that you have to limit yourself to just one rig.....

Hopefully you'll take the time before you make the final decision. Overall tho, even having the best equipment does not warrant the best results....it's all about the operator.

Personally, I'm giving a 5x7 a chance and see where it goes. Best of luck.

Les

[locutus]

First thing to ask yourself is, what is the intended output? Enlargments? Scans? Contact prints?

Unless you want 8x10 contact prints really consider if 5x4 isn't enough to get started in.

[B.S.Kumar]

Since you already have a Linhof, you might want to get some more experience with it first. I assume you already have a lens or two? If they cover 8x10, great. If not, you might want to look at substituting them for the lenses you'll need for the larger format. But take it slow - handling an 8x10 is a bit different from 4x5. And unless you're shooting Xray or expired film, consider film and processing costs as well.

The Buy and Sell forums will be visible to you after you've been a member for 30 days.

Kumar

[LabRat]

It's not just the camera you will buy, but the entire support system, such as lenses, holders, large tripod, larger changing bag, focusing cloth, film processing equipment, film, cases, bags, etc...

These handle differently than a 4X5, with less DOF, longer exposures due to smaller f stops, less lens extension with longer FOV's, and can be tricky to balance and steady, keep holders dust free, and lug this beast around... But can shine when you get everything right... (But so can a smaller camera...) It would good to try one first to see if it is your thing, so see if some local will let you shoot one of theirs...

As mentioned, if you enlarge, you can make the print any size you can make with a 4X5 and enlarger, but wait until you have to find an 8X10 enlarger...

But the bigger the neg, the contacts will be bigger, so decide what size you want the final prints to be...

Decisions, decisions...

Steve K

[Phovsho]

Dear all

Thanks for the comments. Cautions appreciated. I am seeing 8x10 as an "and" not an "or". So will still have Linhoff 4x5 and other cameras in the MF and 35mm space.

I totally accept the point that a camera is no substitute for talent! But I'm getting older and this is something I want to give a try. I've always been attracted to the lesser travelled road. That said, I'm painfully aware of the compromises - cost, weight, choices etc. However, I do see that there appears to be some pretty good film choices available for 8x10 - including Impossible's instant film (though I hope it performs better than my experience with it in smaller formats).

I'm not sure what I want to do with theoutput. Contact prints for sure - especially portraits. But as much the experience and process of capturing images. The good thing is im in no real hurry so will have an eye out until I find the right camera. Perhaps having to wait 30 days before I can see the "for sale" on this site is a reason and time for reflection.

Thanks again.

[Phovsho]

Steve

Much appreciated. Fortunately I have access to an 8x10 enlarger.

I guess I'm at a point in my life where I'm over convenience - a primary and purported benefit of digital anything. Want to do less better, or at least different. Though that sentiment might change after I've lugged the thing up a hill a few times.

Murray

[Luis-F-S]

I would wait until you can access the For Sale section on this Forum in 30 days after joining. The 'bay is often tricky and can be an overpriced place. There can be many great and not so great buys. If you're not experienced with Deardorffs, I would use extreme caution. One of the Dorffs on the 'bay belonged to a forum member. When you can access the For Sale section, you'll see his ad for the same camera, at a better price. By buying through this forum, you have a better chance of speaking with a knowledgeable individual who will hopefully tell you the plusses and minusses of the camera. I have 6 Deardorffs, so can't say enough about the camera. They're my preference over any of the new cameras being made. Best thing, if you buy one right, you can then sell it for close to what you paid for it if you don't like it. Some of the main things to watch out for is that the bed is not separated at the 4 joints. Not an easy fix. The main wear item on 8x10's are the metal shoes; where the rear frame focuses. Usually the first 1-3" wears from focusing over the years. Bellows can be replaced if needed, I would suggest Custom Bellows in the UK, great company with a great product. I've bought 2 bellows from him this past year and right now the £ is "reasonable". Just don't buy one of the overpriced "mint" ones from the far East! Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions about Dorffs. Good luck. L

[John Kasaian]

If you're comfortable enough with your Linhof 4x5 then 8x10 should be an easy transition. I would suggest if possible, to shadow an 8x10 photographer in New Zealand for an afternoon (or morning.) That I think would answer some of your questions.
Some thoughts:

On old 8x10 wood cameras---
They earned their keep back "in the day" in the employ of working photographers and studios, so you'll find them well cared for, that or totally worn out. Unless you enjoy woodworking projects, a well cared for camera with everything working is probably a better choice. Any of the major brands will work if they are in good repair, so the question is how intuitive are they to use, and bellows draw. If you foresee a very long lens (600mm+) in your future, make sure your camera has long enough bellows.

On tripods for 8x10s---
Just make sure they can handle the weight of your camera. Wood tripods of course, look slick supporting wood cameras.

On the lens---
To my eyes, what works on 4x5 does not equate well to 8x10. I'll suggest starting with a "medium" lens between 240mm---375mm.. Use it for awhile and see if you want to add something longer, or wider to your kit. A 14" Commercial Ektar is a very nice lens, btw. I don't have any experience with newer lenses so I'll leave others to comment on those (Fuji, as an example, has quite an enthusiastic following)

On used 8x10 film holders---
Test them with photo paper first. Don't waste time/money on leakers. If you do end up with a leaker, save it for parts. Some prefer wood holders, some plastic. What's important is that they are light tight.

On focusing dark cloth---
Just like on your 4x5 only a lot bigger.

On a focusing loupe---
Your choice.

On 8x10 film---
Unless someone else is buying the film (or you're very wealthy in which case I'd like to introduce you to my daughter,) you'll likely never shoot color film.
If you shoot Ilford in the Linhof, I suggesting sticking with Ilford in 8x10 since you already "know" it.

Good luck and have fun!

[DrTang]

get a deardorf..get a 14" commercial ektar...get a 10" wide field ektar

start shootin