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Thread: Film for learning

  1. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2017
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    6

    Re: Film for learning

    Quote Originally Posted by Thalmees View Post
    Hello locutus.
    Thanks for the information.
    From where can I get Foma or Arist at 1/2(half) the price of ILFORD.
    Thanks in advance.
    Hi Thalmees. Even less then half, actually:

    http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=...m+4x5&_sacat=0
    Ilford FP4+ ~45euro/25sheet
    Fomapan 100 ~32euro/50sheet

    or here:
    https://www.macodirect.de/film/schwarzweissfilm/?p=1
    Ilford FP4+ ~39euro/25sheet
    Fomapan 100 ~32euro/50sheet

  2. #12
    Thalmees's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    342

    Re: Film for learning

    Hello Gentlemen,
    Quote Originally Posted by locutus View Post
    I buy at Macodirect.
    |--------------+-----------+-------+----------------+---------------+-----------------|
    | Manufacturer | Type | Speed | Sheets per box | Price per box | Price per sheet |
    |--------------+-----------+-------+----------------+---------------+-----------------|
    | Foma | Fomapan | 100 | 50 | 31.5 | 0.63 |
    | Ilford | FP4 | 125 | 100 | 139.6 | 1.40 |
    |--------------+-----------+-------+----------------+---------------+-----------------|
    Okay, bit better then half price.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by visand View Post
    Hi Thalmees. Even less then half, actually:
    http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=...m+4x5&_sacat=0
    Ilford FP4+ ~45euro/25sheet
    Fomapan 100 ~32euro/50sheet
    or here:
    https://www.macodirect.de/film/schwarzweissfilm/?p=1
    Ilford FP4+ ~39euro/25sheet
    Fomapan 100 ~32euro/50sheet
    .
    Thanks for the replies.
    I do not think the price of Foma100, is the regular price(€32/50sheets).
    Or, it could be marketed under another name(Arista.Edu?), in US market!
    Just reviewed 3 sites, representing two(2) markets:
    1. B&H, USA. Offer Fomapan $63/50sheets & Arista Edue100 $36/50sheets.
    2. Freestyles, USA. Same as B&H.
    3. Macodirect, Europe. No Arista Edue. Offers Fomapan(only) in Europe at the price of Arista Edue in US.
    Now, I think what you call it Fomapan, others call it Arista Edue! Both around $36/50sheets.
    Do not know really if they are the same? but different market?
    US market, offer both actually, at very different prices.
    Does that mean you are actually talking and using Arista Edue? effectively?
    Is it different standards for different films from the same manufacturer?
    It could be easily understood if they are different manufacturer.
    I do not think the Fomapan100 at US market $63/50sheets, is the same as Arista Edue $36/50sheets.
    At the same time, I do not think the European Foma100 is the same as the US Foma100!
    It's really not clear!
    The Fomapan100 that I know is $63/50sheets.
    Last but not least, I think what you call it Fomapan, others call it Arista Edue! Both around $36/50sheets.
    Anybody can come clarify? Why very different prices for the same product? Or is the Europian Foma100 the same as the US Arista Edue?
    Thanks so much Gentlemen.

    The generosity of spirit in this forum is great, its warmly appreciated.
    ------------------------------

  3. #13

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Posts
    532

    Re: Film for learning

    Beware of european prices, as it will depend on the specific country. Availability is not uniform across the states, so you may need to buy at certain places that charge stupidly high shipping costs to that cheaper options, making them not worth it.
    In my case, I used to buy expensive Ilford/Kodak locally, no need of added chipping charges, because a half priced eastern option (Foma, Berger, etc) grow with shipping charges to almost the same price as Ilford or Kodak. I wonder if it has been improved lately.
    Germans has been always lucky in this respect, I believe.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    189

    Re: Film for learning

    Arista EDU is made by Foma, and i'm 95% sure its exactly the same thing as Fomapan.

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    4,356

    Re: Film for learning

    Quote Originally Posted by visand View Post
    Hi. I'm starting now with LF and, since I never developed film by my own, I expect I will need some trial and error, so I will most likely need to waste some film...
    Up to now I mostly used Ilford film (FP4+, Delta 100) in 35mm and 6x6/6x9, having them developed in a lab, but I see the 4x5 sheet film are quite expensive. So, I have a few questions:
    - Is there any cheaper film that would be anyway good to start with and still doesn't have quality/processing issues (like FOMA, ...)?
    - Does it makes sense at all to start with a cheap film and then later move to Ilford or would it require to almost re-start the learning curve?
    - To develop the film I was thinking of getting a Jobo tank. Is it a good start or would you suggest anything different?
    Thank you for your support!
    I'd recommend to start with a film you know very well from smaller formats, then you can concentrate with LF particularities, for example exposure.

    Exposing well LF film has tricks, and if you use a film you know well then you will notice if you do the rest ok. You'll find you need to compensate exposure on bellows extension (Like RB67) and you have to check well shutter accuracy for all speeds. You have to know very well your LF shutter !

    If you want to shot Fomapan... this is also a good choice, specially for studio portraits with controlled light. IMHO Foma films are more difficult to use with sunlight (it's just IMHO). But to shot FOMA in LF first test it very well with smaller formats, you can make exposure bracketings and filter bracketings easy and cheap. This is just what I do.


    Remember that with LF you have the great chance to make an special processing for each individual shot. For rolls you make same processing for all frames... It is very common to make N-2 or N+2 development to get the contrast, tonality etc you pre-visualize. Every sheet is a treasure, so you can end with spot meter and knowing what negative density you are to obtain for each important scene spot.

    If you are to scan the thing is easier, Photoshop later solves a lot of problems, but a great thing is to learn how to get a negative that will deliver the print of your visualization. What I mean is that you are going to learn new processing possibilities from film, and it is time and money saving experimenting a film in 135. Difference is you won't see much grain in LF.


    Of course Kodak an Fuji LF film is very expensive, it has 2x the per surface price relative to 120. Ilford has the same per surface LF price than with 120, and Foma has lower price for LF film.

    So, IMHO, start with the film you know, and play attention to not do silly mistakes. By playing necessary attention to the camera you are to get great shots from the very first sheet, just think twice what you are doing: think twice and shot once. This is not a DSLR (you shot 1000 and... etc, etc... )

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Sheridan, Colorado
    Posts
    1,128

    Re: Film for learning

    I agree with what others have said here. Ilford might be a little more expensive, but you don't want to find yourself having to change horses mid-stream.

    As to JOBO, there are less expensive alternatives. I use Colourtronic myself (LONG out of business), but you can get Unicolor, Beseler, etc. tanks for a LOT less. And with B&W, you don't need a temperature controlled bath -- or even a roller. Just roll it yourself, by hand. For my Colourtronic tube, I only need 1.5 oz of chemical to develop FOUR sheets of 4x5 film. You can't do any better than that!!! It's basically free and the cost of the film is diminished somewhat.

  7. #17

    Re: Film for learning

    I would use what ever is the most cost effective, at the moment that appears to be forma, what you need is the freedom to develop your work without worrying about the cost. When you produce your final image nobody will care what film you shot it on, and to be honest I would be very surprised if any one can tell the difference between any thing shot on fp4, adox or forma. I would also invest in a jobo expert tank and a roller base and stick to one developer, I use rodinal which has a very long shelf life which is something to bear in mind if you do not shoot that often.

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    189

    Re: Film for learning

    If you want a cheaper tank option the MOD54 + Paterson4 works well, much easier to load then the Jobo 2521 IMHO.

  9. #19

    Re: Film for learning

    Good point I thought we were talking about 10x8, thought the jobo expert tanks are a far better product, just not in any way cheap.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    4,356

    Re: Film for learning

    As a first developing tank I'd suggest a bare paper safe, tray developing is vey good for single sheets...

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