New to color sheet film - which should I choose for my trip?

[xkaes]

Ok,

positive film = reversal film = slide film = transparency film

negative film = negative film

[Rich14]

Andrew,

I do not want to be accused of raining on your parade. But I feel you need to take a step back and think about the question you have posed here. Photography lore is rife with stories of people who have used a special occasion to justify buying a new piece of (usually expensive) gear, usually on the eve of the event/trip/occasion/opportunity in the expectation that this special-purpose or highly-rated or otherwise-recommended piece of equipment is going to result in better images than would otherwise result from using one's "old" gear.

And the consequence, whether the photographer is a rank amateur or a pro is that the experience turns out much less than expected, if not an utter failure due to unfamiliarity with the gear. Even if it seems that the new gear is exactly the same in terms of controls and settings, everything usually goes wrong. I used to make my living at this game, and I can tell you that everyone of my fellow working pros lived by one hard and fast rule - never, ever go on a shoot with a piece of equipment that you didn't know how to use "in your sleep."

You admit to being unfamiliar, not only with color film, but with standard black and white negative material also. Your experience is with X-Ray film. That is simply not enough to expect satisfactory results on your trip. You really don't know how "standard" film behaves.

Even though film is a lot more expensive than it used to be, the adage, "Film is cheap, the opportunity is priceless," still holds true. You need to spend the time and money becoming proficient with either color positive material or color negative material before you leave for your fantastic trip. You need to know the material upside down and backwards or your photo-memories will be a disaster. Learning on-the-job with practically no chance for feedback (seeing your results) and being under the pressure of travel is not the way to go.

Color positive and negative film are vastly different beasts. One meters for highlights with color positive, and learns how to do that precisely, or the results are garbage. Do it right and the results are spectacular. Fujichrome Velvia is unlike any other film extant. It is delicious. But it takes experience to tame it. And it's not the film to use in very contrasty situations.

Color negative film, like black and white film should be exposed for the shadows. Film "latitude" will take care of the highlights (to a limit). The current Kodak films can give Velvia a run for its money in many situations, properly exposed. Typically, though the results will not be as dramatic, but the success rate will be higher.

I suggest you get a 35mm film camera and shoot a hell of a lot of both types between now and your trip. The exposure experience you acquire will be directly applicable to the same films in 4x5. Use a hand-held meter and set the camera manually. Try to duplicate the kind of shooting you'll be doing on your trip in your own locale. Record your exposures just as you would (should) for LF and compare your record with the resulting images. Use a gray card target, better yet an XRite Color Passport in the first of any sequence/situation to aid in post processing of the rest of the series (NOT AN OPTION!)

Leave for your trip confident that you know how to use either (or both) types of film. That way, your mental energy will be mostly challenged by the logistical realities of using large format while traveling (good luck with that alone!), not thinking about your film (too much).

Prepare well. Have a great time!

[andrewch59]

Hello,

I shoot Agfa 100 and 125 color negative 4x5" film, but you can't get that anymore.

Negative film gives you a negative that you print on approriate paper. It it sometimes called "reversal" film because it is a negative image -- just like X-RAY film. On the other side is "positive" film, typically called "slide" film. That produces a slide or positive image. You need a differnt type of paper to create a print.

So you have:
NEGATIVE / REVERSAL film
POSITIVE / SLIDE film

Either will create perfectly good results, but different people have different preferences for different reasons. I can't tell you which is best for you, but both Kodak and Fuji make fine films in both categories. The things to look out for:

Make sure it is DAYLIGHT film. Many are designed for artificial light and are referred to as TUNGSTEN or "T" film. That is NOT what you want, although it can be corrected with the use of an 80xxx type filter.

Look at the film speed. The LOWER the number, let's say ISO 100 vs ISO 400, will give you more resolution and more apparent sharpness and less apparent grain.

The sheets come in boxes of various number of sheets. The larger boxes have more sheets but cost more. So try to estimate the number of pictures you will take, double that to handle errors, and don't buy more than that. This stuff ain't cheap. Keep any left-overs in the freezer.

thankyou Xkaes, that is sound advice.

[andrewch59]

Thankyou Rich14 that is great advice, fortunately I have a few roll film holders for my Shen Hao so I am not restricted to sheet only. Yes I am totally inept when it comes to using proper film and will be putting through a few rolls of B+W film before I go, hence the two year preparation time. I have a supply of ILFORD Fp4. After some of the advice (I thankyou all very much) I will probably settle for 120 colour neg film, which I can then scan on my Epson v800 scanner. It will be a lot easier to lug around as well and load into holders.
I don't think you have rained on my parade, I think mayhap you have handed me an umbrella

[Pere Casals]

Thankyou Rich14 that is great advice, fortunately I have a few roll film holders for my Shen Hao so I am not restricted to sheet only. Yes I am totally inept when it comes to using proper film and will be putting through a few rolls of B+W film before I go, hence the two year preparation time. I have a supply of ILFORD Fp4. After some of the advice (I thankyou all very much) I will probably settle for 120 colour neg film, which I can then scan on my Epson v800 scanner. It will be a lot easier to lug around as well and load into holders.

Of course you can also scan sheets with V800.

V800 will scan very, very well color negative film, because this stuff was reengineered long ago to perform very well with digital minilabs of that era.

With V800 you also will get good Velvia/Provia scans, but if you want to recover deep shadows you will need Silverfast SE Plus version (or AI) because the Silverfast SE (without "Plus") do not include Multiexposure feature I think that this software feature can be purchased separately, not expensive.

IMHO someone who shots X-Ray can learn very quickly how color works. I'd suggest to just take a 135 roll of each type: Portra/Ektar/Velvia/Provia, then spot metering some pattern scenes (clouds, sky, shadows) and bracketing. You will see what happens. With Velvia you may need to darken Sky with Pol of graded ND.

Always rememner that with negative color film you can just overexpose some areas if needed, but with slides you need to control highlights with graded ND or Pol.

Also I'd like to add that Reversal film (Provia/Velvia) is much sharper than color negative film, so I'd suggest you to also test how well slides work for you. Velvia is Velvia.

Please consider evaluating Velvia !!!

Regards.

[Rich14]

"Also I'd like to add that Reversal film (Provia/Velvia) is much sharper than color negative film, so I'd suggest you to also test how well slides work for you. Velvia is Velvia."

As I said, there is nothing quite like Velvia. But you should try Kodak Ektar color negative film. You will no longer say Velvia is much sharper than color negative film." Ektar is quite vivid and very sharp. It is serious stuff. Best color negative material Kodak has ever made. I think I could go out on a shoot and do a mixture of these two and not have much to choose between when all the post processing is done.

I'm not quite ready to declare myself proficient at scanning/processing it. As with all color negative film, dealing with the mask presents a learning curve. But I'll soon be there and post some images.

Rich

[Two23]

My first choice would be Ektar, and my second would be Portra 160 when I wanted a softer, low contrast look.


Kent in SD

[Punker]

I'm partial to Ektar, myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ben_hutcherson]

I will go out on a limb and say that fall colors speak for themselves, and it's one of the few times of year where Velvia can be "too much." Although I have shot Velvia in the fall, I tend to grab Provia these days. When those of us who shoot reversal film(this is a term with origins going back to Kodachrome's introduction in the 1930s) had more selection, I'd even break out Astia or E100GS in the fall. E100GS to me was something of a sweet spot-I never particularly cared for Ektachrome in general, but E100GS was a bit warmer and more saturated than the standard E100G. Also, for as much as I like to dump on Kodachrome, I shot more of it in the fall than I did any other time of the year.

That's all in the past, though. Kodak will be bringing back Ektachrome in the fall, but only in 35mm for the time being. We will see if it retains the traditional blue Ektachrome cast.

Others have advised you well on negative films. I like Ektar 100, although I'm not really that big on color negative films.

Let me also make one other poignant suggestion. By your own admission, you have never shot "real" film(by that I mean film intended for photography). Medium format cameras are cheap these days, and even a basic Hasselblad 500-series kit can be had in the $500 range. By kit I mean a body, 80mm lens, waist level finder, and film back. For even more bang for your buck, Bronica(my pet brand), Pentax, and Mamiya SLRs can all be had for pretty reasonable prices. A Bronica SQ kit(6x6) with an 80mm(fantastic lens, even if it doesn't say Zeiss on it) can be had in the $300-350. Move down to a 645 format camera and you might get in at under $200(I paid $175 for my ETRS, including a prism finder). 35mm is even cheaper, and there are a lot of great consumer SLRs collectors that you can get for free if you ask(I've been offered a few). If you want to move up to a pro body, you can still get them cheap. My beloved Canon F-1s are bringing in the $100-200 range, often with a 50mm 1.4 included. I paid $50 for a Nikon F2 last week with a metered finder, and have seen F4s as cheap as $150. The same color films are available for both 35mm and medium format as in 4x5, and in fact great emulsions like my beloved Velvia 50 are readily available. At least here in the US, there are a decent number of labs still around where you can send off 35mm print film and get it back with 4x6 prints in a few days. When I don't use a local lab(I like to support them) I send my stuff to Dwayne's Photo in Kansas. They don't handle sheet film(which is why I got into doing E-6 myself) but are happy to do 35mm and medium format.

You can burn a bunch of film at relatively low cost vs. 4x5 in either 35mm or medium format. I never take my 4x5 gear out without also having a medium format camera in some flavor along, and I've been happy to have it because I've had opportunities present themselves for photos where there was no way I would have been able to get the 4x5 set up.

BTW, an earlier poster referenced Velvia 100F. Ignore that reference-Fuji mercifully killed that terrible crap. Regular Velvia 100 is not bad, but I still much prefer 50.

[Pere Casals]

"Also I'd like to add that Reversal film (Provia/Velvia) is much sharper than color negative film, so I'd suggest you to also test how well slides work for you. Velvia is Velvia."

As I said, there is nothing quite like Velvia. But you should try Kodak Ektar color negative film. You will no longer say Velvia is much sharper than color negative film." Ektar is quite vivid and very sharp. It is serious stuff. Best color negative material Kodak has ever made. I think I could go out on a shoot and do a mixture of these two and not have much to choose between when all the post processing is done.

I'm not quite ready to declare myself proficient at scanning/processing it. As with all color negative film, dealing with the mask presents a learning curve. But I'll soon be there and post some images.

Rich

Hello Rick,

Resolving power of Velvia is rated 80 / 160 lines per mm (Lo/Hi contrast). MTFs are still 45% at 50 c/mm. Quite sharp. Even a drum scanner will have problems to read all resolving power Velvia may deliver.

Ektar is also very good, it resolves less, but you are right: "much less" was not at all a fair statement. Perhaps a 20% less, it's a guess...

Really a shot has to be very steady, and optically sound to notice that film sharpness difference.

And, of course, post processing is very important for a sharp result.

IMHO also for color photography the important thing is color. So those numbers are of little importance in front of a suitable spectral response for our subject.

Regards.