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Thread: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

  1. #1
    Between here and there
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    Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    I am in need of some help with my dear old Norma. It needs a basic clean-up - the old grease is getting a bit too old.

    I have been in touch with the official Sinar source in Munich, and they referred me to a fellow in Erfurt.

    I have been sending a few emails - long story short - the man is not up to speed when it comes to replying (possibly too busy/other) and I am not very confident when it comes to speaking german on the phone.

    Does one need to send off the whole camera or can I send for example the back/front standards?

    Can anyone recommend another reliable person, in Germany or EU?

  2. #2

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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    Let me recommend you something.

    Buy a 500ml spray of this lubricant: INTERFLON FOOD LUBE

    https://www.interflon.com/de/

    You can also use INTERFLON FIN SUPER, that's sold also in amazon (also in 100ml cans).

    It's mostly the same, penetrating dry-film teflon lubricant, the "FOOD" version is H1 atoxic grade that can be used in food processing facilities, and that's nice.

    You just spray a bit in friction surfaces of your Norma and it will be smoother than new. I did it in my Norma and now its a pleasure to use it. That kind lubrication will last a lot.

    There are two or three lubricants around that may perform like this one, but don't use any teflon oil, it's not the same. Don't buy the "grease" version of the product, it has to be oil and not grease. In the past perhaps it had to be a kind of grease, but dry-film teflon lubricant substitutes grease (in this application) with great advantage.

  3. #3

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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    Adding a liquid lubricant in a attempt to free up aged lubricant on a Sinar Norma is not recommended. Some time ago took apart the Sinar Norma mechanical to see why they were so difficult to move. Essentially over many decades, the original lubricant used by Sinar dries out and become a hard clay like substance that has adhesive qualities. Adding a liquid lubricant might dissolve this stuff to some degree, but there will always be some residual that can cause problems. The proper way to resolve this problem is to take the Sinar mechanicals apart and clean every bit of what remains of the old lubricant out... completely. Then clean all the parts best as possible and lubricated with a about a NLGI# 1 synthetic moly grease sparingly. Once properly cleaned, lubricated and adjusted the precision and feel of the mechanical of a Sinar Norma is quite remarkable.

    Nearly identical difficulty happens on old microscopes and the process is much the same.

    Bernice

  4. #4

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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    Adding a liquid lubricant in a attempt to free up aged lubricant on a Sinar Norma is not recommended. Some time ago took apart the Sinar Norma mechanical to see why they were so difficult to move. Essentially over many decades, the original lubricant used by Sinar dries out and become a hard clay like substance that has adhesive qualities. Adding a liquid lubricant might dissolve this stuff to some degree, but there will always be some residual that can cause problems. The proper way to resolve this problem is to take the Sinar mechanicals apart and clean every bit of what remains of the old lubricant out... completely. Then clean all the parts best as possible and lubricated with a about a NLGI# 1 synthetic moly grease sparingly. Once properly cleaned, lubricated and adjusted the precision and feel of the mechanical of a Sinar Norma is quite remarkable.

    Nearly identical difficulty happens on old microscopes and the process is much the same.

    Bernice

    Bernice, lubrication technology has achived remarkable advances.

    Dry-film lubrication technology has a solvent that penetrates and cleans the internal surfaces and when the solvent evaporates then the dry-film remains linked to metal parts for extraordinary long time. My Norma had a lot of friction, I lubricated it with a dry-film two years ago and still it remains perfectly smooth, fantastic, its a joy using it.

  5. #5

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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    I wonder if Bob at PrecisionsCameraRepair.com will CLA a Norma?

    Also might be worth checking with Glenn at GlennView.com? I know that he's knowledgeable and loves Sinar Norma cameras. But, I'm not sure if he does CLA's? So, just a possibility.

  6. #6

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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    What happened to the old lubricant? It must go some where..

    If one takes the mechanicals of a Norma completely apart, then puts all the precision bits into an ultrasonic clearer with the correct solvent, the resulting Goooo is remarkable.

    While simply applying stuff to free up the parts does and can work, it does about zero to remove the dirt and grit acclimated over decades of service or properly address parts that are worn or adjustment of the precision mechanisms. The mechanicals of the Sinar Norma appears simple, but they are more complex and fragile than they appear. Do the wrong move on them, parts will be damaged or broken.

    And yes, one can apply the lubricant of their choice to free up the mechanicals but it is NOT the same or equal as a proper complete take apart, clean, proper lubricant applied and adjusted.



    Bernice


    Quote Originally Posted by Pere Casals View Post
    Bernice, lubrication technology has achived remarkable advances.

    Dry-film lubrication technology has a solvent that penetrates and cleans the internal surfaces and when the solvent evaporates then the dry-film remains linked to metal parts for extraordinary long time. My Norma had a lot of friction, I lubricated it with a dry-film two years ago and still it remains perfectly smooth, fantastic, its a joy using it.

  7. #7

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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bernice Loui View Post
    What happened to the old lubricant? It must go some where..
    The solvent component of dry-film lubricants is designed to degrease the inner parts as you move the mechanisms a few times, you have to move forward and back the mechanisms perhaps a dozen of times, but all dirt in the contact surfaces is expelled and what stays inside is the dry film.

    Just try it...

    I've been using those kind of products in really challenging industrial environements with precission equipment.

    Beyond being absolutely happy about how my Norma moves after two years, I've recently also unblocked a Durst 138 S, all was nearly blocked an now it's a really refined device, I gave a can to a friend and he used it with a 184, with amazing results.

    Cheap teflon oils can be bare oil with microdispersed teflon, this is not the same, when the oil goes out then the teflon also goes out, but in dry-film lubrication we have a completely different behaviour, as the teflon particles are electrically loaded and adhere to the surfaces while building a film layer. This helps all the dirt inside to go out when the mechanism works. If you don't try it you won't belive how well that works, it's hard to realize it until one tries it.

  8. #8

    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    I have have partially stripped down several of my Normas, you really have to know what you are doing. Phillip Morgan had an excellent video and printout (20 chapters) on cleaning and lubing a Norma. I followed his instructions precisely. There are a lot of ways you can really mess up these cameras without proper guidance and tools. Proceed carefully. I used electronic contact cleaner, and acetone for tougher stubborn cleaning. Automotive wheel bearing grease (not too much!!) provides silky controls. The original Norma Manual specified white petrol (like used for camping equipment, stoves and such). The also provided a tin of grease for relubing. It was a blackish-looking grease, and I have several of those tins. They were taped inside the inside cover of the Norma Manual. Often the front manual covers are stained by the original grease.

    Cleaning a Norma properly is not a quick or easy process, it's a major project. Any Norma can be brought back to new with proper care which is beautiful.


    https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...-guide.132584/
    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Between here and there
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    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    Thanks for all suggestions, gentlemen!

    I am not going to try to fix this camera myself, since I know from the guide that Philip Morgan did (would love to find it again) that it is no easy process, and I don't have the right tools anyways. I really love the camera but it is sitting mostly on the shelf since it is a bit too stiff.

    We'll see what happens ... I've been in contact with Glenn - he had no leads in Europe. I'll continue looking.

    Since it is a 5x7" and it is the rear standard that's stiff, I can't just go buy another part ...

  10. #10

    Re: Sinar Norma CLA, Europe?

    Hi Jimi,

    The 5x7 Norma uses the 4x5 rear standard (taking off the 4x5 uprights).
    So you could replace just that part. Get another 4x5 rear standard and switch them out.
    Sell your sticky one. Just a thought........

    -Dan
    “The secret of getting ahead is getting started.”
    ― Mark Twain

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