Red dot Artar 890

[hiend61]

Have any of you gentlemen experience shooting chromes with this lens?. I use an Apo Ronar CL 600/9 in it´s Sinar MC version and I´m very pleased with it, but I would like to have something longer. I´m considering an Apo Ronar 890/14, but I can´t find any in the condition I would like, so I´d like to know your experience with this lens. I think late versions, made by Schneider corporation of America have aluminium barrels instead of brass ones and are ligther.
Can any of you tell me the measures of flange screw and if possible the filter size?
Thans in advance for your advice.

[Luis-F-S]

I assume you mean a 35" Artar? Color rendition should be no different from one of the shorter ones. Most Artars don't have a standard filter thread sizes but SKG or someone similar can make one. My 30" is mounted with 77 mm threads.

[hiend61]

Yes, I mean RD Artar 35". I never used a RD Artar made by Goerz Optical in USA or Apo Artar made by Schneider in Germany or Switzerland, so I don´t know anything about it´s color rendition. Have you shot chromes with your 30"?.

[Luis-F-S]

No, but apo chromatic should say something about the color correction. It's mind boggling to me that some one would buy a 35" lens without ever having shot one even if a shorter one.

[hiend61]

Color correction is a thing, and color rendition is another story. The word apo does not tell me a lens has a good color rendition, it just tells me that a lens has probably less chromatic errors. I have tried long apo lenses that provided dull colors and weak contrast, but performed very well in B/W. I just would like to read the comments of people who have used long RD Artars with Chrome film, and if possible see some samples, even with the limitations of a computer screen.
I have shot chromes with almost every Apo Ronar from 240 to 600 in a variety of versions and shapes, MC, non MC, in barrel, in shutter..., and I have an idea of what I can expect from Apo Ronars. The problem is that I can´t find a good sample of AR CL 890/14. I have seen several nice samples of RD Artar 35" in the auction site. I heard very good comments from RD Artar users, but all of them shot B/W. I read somewhere that newer aluminium barrel versions made by Schneider Corp. of America and Goerz versions from serial number 800XXX have better contrast.

[Mark Sampson]

In a past life, I occasionally used a 19"/480mm Goerz Red Dot Artar on an 8x10 camera. It was long enough ago that the film was Kodak Vericolor II, Type L, from which I made 30"x40" color prints. The images were quite sharp, but the contrast was lower than when using (say) a 12"/300mm Schneider Symmar-S. The lower contrast was a subtle effect, not problematical at all. Of course with any long-distance shooting, the amount of air between you and your subject will have an effect. If I needed a lens that long, I'd happily use a Red Dot Artar again.

[Drew Wiley]

At one time Red Dot Artars were prized by color photographers, especially for large format chromes. The image circles were somewhat limited with respect to the focal length compared to plasmats. The Schneider Artar inherited the same characteristics. In other words, they weren't just "apo" with respect to consistent dot reproduction in a graphics sense. Other 4-element apo lenses shared similar prized characteristics for color film use, including Apo Nikkors and Rodenstock Apo Ronars. But given the span of time over which these were made, I suppose there is always the possibility of an odd duck or two out there, or some spacing issues of the elements due to field versus copy camera applications. And coatings obviously improved over time, which improved contrast.

[hiend61]

Thanks Mark and Drew for your comments. I also shot Vericolor II in both S and L versions. Spacing issues can potentially be a problem, but if it is possible to disamble lens cells, with patience and the help of a good CNC workshop can be solved, but in my experience, those spacing issues affect more to the peripheria of the image circle, and a small improvement can be seen in the central part of it.

[Mark Sampson]

I wouldn't worry about lens element spacing problems. Find a lens, shoot some with it. Critical sharpness will depend on many more things than that. Camera stability, air movement, shutter speed, subject movement, f/stop, all will play important parts in total image sharpness. So will the degree of enlargement (if any), as will scanning techniques if you plan a hybrid approach. I'm sure that you're aware of the things, having experience with long lenses, but I'm trying to think this through myself. The Artar is a symmetrical design, so should perform equally at close-up or distant focus; at least that's the conventional wisdom as imparted to me, and I've had no reason to doubt it.
As far as filter sizes go, I don't think that either Goerz or Schneider envisioned these as camera lenses, and it's likely that any lens you find will not have a screw-on filter ring on the front. Those can be custom-made of course, but a gel behind the lens might be the easiest solution there.
Best of luck- I would also look up the work of Reinhart Wolf- he did spectacular long-lens work of castles in Spain, as well as the skyscrapers of New York City.

[hiend61]

I had the fortune of knowing Reinhart Wolf in 1982 when he was shooting for his book Castles in Spain. I found him taking the picture of the castle of Coca, not far from my home, and I was present when he made the picture that is in the book.